Let us all reason, for the well being of humanity.

[CatWoman]

toki, there are only about 40,000 Armenians left in Turkey.... What happened to the rest of em? They disappeared?

What's happening in Turkey as we speak is called a "cultural genocide". You live there, so try to find out what happened to Arakelots monastery in Sassoon, Surb Bardughimeos church of Van, Khtskonq monastery of Kars, Arakelots church of Mush and many many more get back to us. Why are they wiping out traces of Armenian presence in Turkey?

Just two things to think about.

[winoman]

toki - you are so without a clue. First we needn't prove to the likes of you - whose mind is totally closed and made up - even lackign facts - that it was a genocide - it was. You are obvioulsy quite ignorant of the history. I ask - i fyou truly want peace, friendship and understanding etc - that you do some research first - and attempt to understand something about which you speak. Then come back here - apologize profusly to us for you ignorance and your insults (even if not intended your ignorant posts are highly insulting and hurtful to us - particualrly now - but anytime) - and then you ask forgivenss from us again for all that was done to our forefathers and our families....

[Thai-Samurai]

ok everyone we have two choices.
Argue w/ people like Toki all day.
Or make Armenia a better country than Turkey's.

Confucius said, "There is good government when those who are near are happy, and those far away desire to come."

[winoman]

Reading this again - I can't help myself - issues must be addressed...

I request in the interest of fellowship and understanding that our friend toki answer these few questions that derive from his most inciteful posting....

I understand the concerns that you all carry... Honestly, I don't have too much time because I got daily things to take care of. I will be as brief as possible eventhough it is a very sensitive subject regarding Turkey and Armenia. It is in such magnitudes that will be bad for the reputation of Turkey and the future of Armenia.

Is this your overiding concern - the reputation of Turkey? Not that truth be made known and ackowleged and justice be served....Let me ask you - do you consider the Ottoman Empire and Turkey (of today) to be essentially one in the same? If the Ottoman Empire were so perfect and free of fault then why the need for a Turkish Republic? Has your nation always been truthful in all things? Has it always been perfect and without blame for its policies and actions?

First of all, some have read this topic maturely some have not. I, of course, can not tell you how to react to this situation. I am concerned however. It is a vicious cycle. You know very well that so-called genocide will not be accepted. In my OPINION, with regards to the historical evidence, it was not a genocide.

Please give us some examples of the historical record that you so speak that you have based your "opinion" on....

Someone said that you wanted justice. I understand that you are upset for all of those sacrifices. Yet again, I am too. But we won't be able to go any where with "if"s. What if this didn't happen? What would have happened if...? and so forth. I regretfully say that a lot of people that shouldn't have died from both sides.

Yes of course (who said that BTW - attribution....) - but lets see now - who shoulders the blame? Who dragged their nation into the war and who had the control of the state apparatus to single out and exterminate a specific element of the population? Whose barbaraty was witnessed by observers from many nations - even representatives of the allies of said nation and whose nation has been accused and convicted (by the UN and by its own military tribunals) of crimes against humanity - and of genocide? Whose nations actions were used as one of two prime examples of genocide for the drafting and scoping of the use/definition of the word genocide itself?

i remember reading from someone's answer that Turkey is not civilized, just trying to be. Also, that we are living in ignorance. If you are calling a nation that has so much history not civilized, think again. We are not living in ignorance, we are living for the well being of our geographic area, and we are adapting to the changing attributes of this world. If you keep thinking about the past you won't be able to think about the future.

Please reference that amazingly insightful quote - "If you keep thinking about the past you won't be able to think about the future" - I always thought it was "he who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it" I will withold comment concerning the degree of civility and level of ignorance of you and your nation at this time...

Nothing, I or anybody says is going to change of course. After all, everybody hears what they want to hear. You might think that I am being ridicilous about not calling it genocide and I think vice-versa.

Are you suggesting that for us to consider what happened to our people at the hands of the Turks to be genocide is "rediculous"? And that you are saying you will not change your thoughts as you will hear only what you want to hear? Well just who is being rediculous here eh? But perhaps true - will you admit to us here that there is nothing further that you can know - or care to know about this subject?

Now,the reason why Armenians in Istanbul and some other parts of the country are living is because they didn't sell their neighbours, they didn't sell the soil that they were living on. For those who don't know, I have met so many Armenian people, and we are living in peace. We are playing soccer in the same field, and drink water from the same bottle.

"didn't sell their neighbors"? ? You really must elaborate on this one - give us some examples. And so you imply that all the other 1.5 million Armenians who were killed were all guilty of "selling their neighbors" - whatever that must mean?

Let's talk about justice a little. It is justice that you want. You think tht if Turkey compensates Armenia justice is going to be fulfilled. So it is not about the people that died, and how upset you are about them. It is only about getting some money out of this "deal". What are you going to do? Wait Turkey decide whether it was a genocide or not, so that the lost amount could be compensated and could be used in the well-being of Armenia. You are going to wait for a very long time then... I can assure you that that is not going to happen, not in this decade at least.

Is that your final answer? Do you wish to call in for some support, perhaps poll the audience? Ok - then die for all we care....and who are you to judge us and what we feel, what we might want as "compensation".....? Yes - lets talk justice...

Everybody has been trying so hard. Armenian lobbies are created in the states, several movies have been filmed. We are still being as silent as possible so that the Armenians in Turkey aren't disturbed.

nothing to do but laugh about this comment...again have you no clue as to how your government has been anything but silent....

Also, I have read some comments about me. We are not here to make comments about individuals right. I have took my time to register to this thing and to converse, let's not involve stereotypes...

Best wishes,
CAN

hm - seems to me as if you have come here with all the answers - you Armenians this and you Armenians that - etc - you really must be some expert. We are looking foreward to you presenting your academic credentials....perhaps Professor of Comedic relief - the University of Xenophobia and Eugenics - Istanbul not Constantinople eh?

[Thai-Samurai]

Good job Winoman, you surprised me. I think you're a cool guy now.

[winoman]

Good job Winoman, you surprised me. I think you're a cool guy now.

hm - and you didn't before?

[nairi]

It's funny how so many modern Turks know only so little about the father of their nation, Atatürk..

No more needs to be said.

As for you Turki, when you decide to grow up, we will welcome you, just like we welcome the likes of Akcam and Pamuk (who of course in your eyes are Kurdish or Armenian separatist, terrorist traitors). Until then, thank you and goodbye.

[winoman]

Actually I have it on good authority that Akcam is in fact Azeri and I think Pamuk is prettymuch Turkish - but yeah - Nairi - I think you get the picture with this guy....

[TomServo]

toki, you're taking the Tayyip Erdogan approach and denying the genocide in the most polite and "politically correct" way possible. That's fine, but you're still denying it. You both need to realize that when one million (and more) people of an ethnic group are designedly and intentionally slaughtered it constitutes a genocide. What you're saying is that "Turkey killed and planned to kill millions of Armenians but it was not a genocide." Were the Turks frightened that three-year-old Armenian children and their mothers were going to go join the Russians? Please enlighten me.

[toki]

Allright, I give up. I wanted to talk, I have been attacked that is fine. I don't give a crap honestly. Try getting the so-called genocide approved. Let's just hope that true justice is served...

For your information my grandmother was Armenian and my grandfather was Assyrian...

Peace