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  • #101
    Honestly I don't know what really happened at 1915 and almost all the Turkey population don't know either. And you want from us to accept that we did genocide. It is a very serious accusation and you want from us to accept it.
    Personally I am ready to accept it if it really happened. But no foreign parliement which both uses Turks and Armenians can not convince me. I can convince if you come with proven scientific and historical facts. Erdogan asked Kocaryan to establish a comitee from the historians of both sides with international historians. But you rjected it, because you don't want to discuss the genocide. Because the western parliements which approved 1915 to justify their genocides and to use 1915 as a political card against Turkey are seems from your side and you don't want to catch this opportunity. You can't understand that 1915 is a debated issue between historians. It is not like 1942-45.
    We can not even communicate with you since your community is so full of Turkish hatred. You hate from us so much that it became your identity.
    I really don't know what shall we do. Honestly I don't know.
    I feel sorry for the Armenians which is killed, died, starved or whatelse at 1915. I feel deep sorry, but your aggressive attacks to my identity makes the issue going in a circle.

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    • #102
      vatepiti - please show where I have attacked your identity - I like Turks - I have been to Turkey - I have good Turkish friends here in the States - etc etc

      So you say you dont' know what happend - but are sorry...Ok...but what of these attacks on Ackam - you really must read him you know - you will be surprised - underneath he is really a type of very strong Turkish nationalist - believe me. But he speaks the truth - and is a very smart and insightful man.

      You need to read up on your and our common history quite a bit to understand these things - and I don't mean officially Turkish government sanctioned (so-called) history...I feel I shouldn't have to explain why - if you at all have the capacity to understand how your government moulds the truth - and I'm not just talking about the genocide - you should be able to figure these things out.

      I don't hate Turks - neither do most Armenians. You should try to understand why we are so upset though.

      Comment

      • #103
        my vatepiti friend i should tell you i am older then you are here and we all talked about those and Winomen is a hard rock hard to crack..he always have answers to all kind of questions and quick to evade them like saying " i do not go into politics just the scholar side" so give up i say...

        and winoman you are right about those people who gets us into trouble in the first place....nice point of approach...

        by the way you attacked our identity bay saying genocide because Turkish population identity based on being good and being peacifull (government teaches us that in the school)... we are all raised like that...but government goes offensive outside Turkey and also at the same time plays the innocent inside... so when you say genocide to people who are fed with stories of being good these drive them crazy because they are so surprised and confused... for example lets say in US they dont teach kids about Atomb bomb... when a Japaneese comes and tells you about it..i think firs reaction would be come on this is a lie...
        Last edited by Otto; 05-26-2005, 11:56 AM.

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        • #104
          Originally posted by winoman
          vatepiti - please show where I have attacked your identity - I like Turks - I have been to Turkey - I have good Turkish friends here in the States - etc etc

          So you say you dont' know what happend - but are sorry...Ok...but what of these attacks on Ackam - you really must read him you know - you will be surprised - underneath he is really a type of very strong Turkish nationalist - believe me. But he speaks the truth - and is a very smart and insightful man.

          You need to read up on your and our common history quite a bit to understand these things - and I don't mean officially Turkish government sanctioned (so-called) history...I feel I shouldn't have to explain why - if you at all have the capacity to understand how your government moulds the truth - and I'm not just talking about the genocide - you should be able to figure these things out.

          I don't hate Turks - neither do most Armenians. You should try to understand why we are so upset though.
          Again I say I read Akcam. Yes I was surprised when I read him and started to search about 1915. I know your theisis. I also know the thesis of this side beside the official propoganda.
          I don't want to start another history debate but as I understand from what I read is as follows shortly:
          Ottoman government which is controlled by CUP (Enver,Talat,Cemal) decided to deport the Armenian population because Russian army invaded eastern Anatolia and Armenians help and even fight on their side.
          I don't think that CUP may have another agenga like make Anatolia Turkish by terminating Armenian population. If it is so, then it is very shameful for my history and yes I have to face with my history. But it doesn't seem like that.
          You think that CUP members are considered as heroes by Turks. It is completely wrong. Very few people even know their name. We are learned about Enver from our school books as the man who was a German lover and who is responsible from the collapse of the Empire. Very few people know the name of Talat. In Turkey we only consider Ataturk as hero. Turks know very few thing before 1923.
          I also assure you that we don't have a pan-Turkic agenga or something else. It is your theory to find some similarities between NAZI nad CUP. Yes CUP was a nationalist party and they had a pan-Turkic agenda but today we DON'T have. Maybe MHP the extreme nationalist party may have which has below 3-4% vote.

          Comment

          • #105
            Otto - I must apologize I really can't understand at all what you are saying in this last post of yours - likely it is due to English usage - what can I say? If you are accusing me of some things please be more precise in what you are saying.

            Comment

            • #106
              Originally posted by winoman
              So you are essentially telling us you would rather remain stupid, guilty and unrepentent...and that you want to kill more Armenians....because they dare have a home of their own not under the domination of Turks...aren't you banned form this forum already?
              huh come on man i was just kidding, fun, you know...

              Comment

              • #107
                it is more valuable to accept the genocide without EU pushing us for me...being free Emachine mentioned is this..besides you KNOW it is gonna give us a great area to maneuveur.... personaly i am fed up EU crap..i dont want to go in there... really bored of them and 5 years from now on you will see Turkey closing the talks if it goes like that.... Europa is a better place without us nad we are better without them....lets trade and no more...

                Comment

                • #108
                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  Again I say I read Akcam. Yes I was surprised when I read him and started to search about 1915.
                  I'd be very surprised if this statement is true (other then perhaps a sound bite or a quote). You show no appreciation for the very different and unique approach Ackam takes to these issues. Please be honest here.

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  I know your theisis.
                  It is no thesis - it is an understanding and appreciation of the history. And you obviously don't know or appreciate it (and in fact didn't you just admit this?)

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  I also know the thesis of this side beside the official propoganda.
                  I don't want to start another history debate but as I understand from what I read is as follows shortly:
                  Ottoman government which is controlled by CUP (Enver,Talat,Cemal) decided to deport the Armenian population because Russian army invaded eastern Anatolia and Armenians help and even fight on their side.
                  Yes this is official Turkish Propaganda. Agreed. We agree on this...

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  I don't think that CUP may have another agenga like make Anatolia Turkish by terminating Armenian population.
                  You don't think? But my boy - they have said this themselves. You have no idea to the great amount of documentation of such. Believe me it is rather extensive and explicit.

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  If it is so, then it is very shameful for my history and yes I have to face with my history. But it doesn't seem like that.
                  How prey tell can you conclude this?

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  You think that CUP members are considered as heroes by Turks. It is completely wrong. Very few people even know their name. We are learned about Enver from our school books as the man who was a German lover and who is responsible from the collapse of the Empire. Very few people know the name of Talat.
                  I understand how mopst Turks feel about these people - that they plunged Turkey into despair etc - funny though how Turks are quick to cover for their crimes when it comes to the Armenain Genocide issue - can you not see the dichotomy in this? Also I think I have a picture of Talat boulevard in Ankara...

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  In Turkey we only consider Ataturk as hero. Turks know very few thing before 1923.
                  Both true statements. Shame that - being ignorant of what occured before 1923. You have the ability (if you can read) to correct this you know...

                  Originally posted by vatepiti
                  I also assure you that we don't have a pan-Turkic agenga or something else. It is your theory to find some similarities between NAZI nad CUP. Yes CUP was a nationalist party and they had a pan-Turkic agenda but today we DON'T have. Maybe MHP the extreme nationalist party may have which has below 3-4% vote.
                  You may not...but there are others who do - within limits of course. Our friend "Armenian" has dreams of overunning Anatolia and pushing Turks into the sea - etc - so yeah - there are those with these sorts of (unrealistic and absurd) thoughts among us...

                  Comment

                  • #109
                    no accusation.... you asked ""where i attacked your personal identity " and the answer is:by saying "you killed people" to a peaciful raised Turkish man it is already a accusation...

                    my english knowledge is decreasing constantly

                    Comment

                    • #110
                      Originally posted by Otto
                      it is more valuable to accept the genocide without EU pushing us for me...being free Emachine mentioned is this..besides you KNOW it is gonna give us a great area to maneuveur.... personaly i am fed up EU crap..i dont want to go in there... really bored of them and 5 years from now on you will see Turkey closing the talks if it goes like that.... Europa is a better place without us nad we are better without them....lets trade and no more...
                      100% im with you.
                      No EU for Turkey = 100% Free Turkey without EU pressure!!!

                      Russia is girlie = Turkey can do ANYTHING on Azeris and Armenians!!!
                      No EU for Turkey = Forget Karabakh forever!

                      No EU for Turkey = Armenia is denied forever = Live with diaspora = no border = no commercion = no nothing



                      look, it is not a dream as you dreamers do. it is tru, you are serving your future with your own hands you messed much

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