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Questions Of Genocide

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  • #1

    Questions Of Genocide

    Since it appeared,has this republic tortured to its Armenian citizens for their race, like Germans had done to Jews? Has this public tried to destroy Armenians, with a hate, just like Germans and generally Christians did to Jews with a hate of an event of 2000 years ago?

    Until late 19th century’s nationalist rebel moves motivated Armenians for independance, had any conflict,fight, opposing massacres happened between Armenians and other Anatolians?
    Wasn’t it peaceful as not seen between any other nations, that was between Turks and Armenians, until that years?

    Wasn’t 1915 forced move a prevention to a nation of a region, done by Ottoman Government, inside war, because of their behaviour in that war, and a prevention tried to be applied inside worst conditions? Are the deaths and massacres happened between Turks and Armenians in late 19th century and during forced move, cause of an eternal hate and will to annihilate the race, carried by Turks against Armenians ?

    So why do we have this defense panic, after almost 100 years ?


    Isn’t the crime of genocide, a crime that was defined as ‘ crime against humanity’ in UN General Council,9 December 1948, with an agreement signed by also Turkey? Since it is needed to search for the ‘intention’ ,which is one of the basic notions in law of punishment,
    does the intention that the agreement searches exist in 1915 events, the ‘’ intention to destroy a national,ethnic,racial or religius group totally or partially’’ ? For genocide crime, there is no prescription/ time limit, but ,isn’t the principle of ‘not effecting past’ , one of the universal principles of law of punishment, valid for this case too?

    Besides, not as a state, but as individual officials, weren’t accused people judged and hung, when all evidance,document and inquiry possibilities were in invaders’ control,right after WW1,in Ottoman times?

    So, why is this injection of guilt feeling to all public, done by great states from outside, and some poets and historians from inside?

    Subject has already passed the level of history and law , and has become a tedious tool of struggle, inside international politics.

    From now on, for such a politicized subject, further from historical arguments, there is a politcal struggle that must be carried continously. Even by hitting disgusting genocides they made to their faces ; what Frenchs did against Huguenots and Algerians, what Americans did to natives and what all colonialists did to Africans.

    Mümtaz Soysal
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Well, I agree that French recognition of Armenian genocide is a hypocrisy since they still did not accept that they did genocide by killing 1,5 million Algerian people. Same for USA governemnt since they did not accept that they did genocide by killing 16 MILLION of native Americans in which only a few thousand remained today. And I gree that this Armenian genocide issue conducting politically instead of historically.
    But these hypocrisy of other people doesn't reduce our responsibility of accepting our crimes if we have. So what we have to do is both struggle against these political claims of some western countries who are blackmailing by Armenian diaspora and who blackmail Turkey, but also start a transparent argument inside Turkey about what really happened at 1915 instead of making an official propoganda to Turkish citizens that Armenians killed us, etc. or oppress people who doesn't follow the official government path about the issue and face with our past whether we had a crime or not. And the first rule of the way to search our past is to create a calm discussion enviroment inside Turkey instead of labelling people as traitor.

    Comment

    • #3
      You're an idiot. No more needs to be said. Except that it may be genetic. Hence nothing you can do about it.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by cemil
        Since it appeared,has this republic tortured to its Armenian citizens for their race, like Germans had done to Jews? Has this public tried to destroy Armenians, with a hate, just like Germans and generally Christians did to Jews with a hate of an event of 2000 years ago?

        Until late 19th century’s nationalist rebel moves motivated Armenians for independance, had any conflict,fight, opposing massacres happened between Armenians and other Anatolians?
        Wasn’t it peaceful as not seen between any other nations, that was between Turks and Armenians, until that years?

        Wasn’t 1915 forced move a prevention to a nation of a region, done by Ottoman Government, inside war, because of their behaviour in that war, and a prevention tried to be applied inside worst conditions? Are the deaths and massacres happened between Turks and Armenians in late 19th century and during forced move, cause of an eternal hate and will to annihilate the race, carried by Turks against Armenians ?

        So why do we have this defense panic, after almost 100 years ?
        I sometimes wonder if the Turkish State's denial of the fact of the Armenian Genocide is because the Turkish "powers that be" know too little, or because they actually know too much.

        Of course the Turkish Republic is 100% complicit in the Armenian Genocide - not only because for the past 85 years they have been churning out denialist propaganda and descriminatory laws, but because it is they who "finished off" the Armenian population of Anatolia by their forced emigration policy in the 1920s, 30s and 40s. And it is they who pursued, and are still pursuing, their policy of cultural genocide against Armenian buildings and other sites of cultural significance.
        Plenipotentiary meow!

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        • #5
          TAIL SONG

          We can't come together, our ways are different
          You're a butcher's cat, I'm an alley cat
          Your food comes in a tin bowl
          Mine is in the lion's mouth
          You dream of love, I of a bone

          But your way isn't easy either, brother
          It's no easy job
          To lick the man's hand every damn day

          Orhan Veli Kanik



          * * *

          REPLY

          From the butcher's cat to the alley cat

          You speak of hunger
          That means you're communist
          That means you burned down all those buildings
          The ones in Istanbul
          The ones in Ankara.

          What a swine you are!

          Orhan Veli Kanik

          Translated by Bernard Lewis (1982)

          Last edited by cemil; 06-22-2005, 10:57 AM.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by karakitap
            but also start a transparent argument inside Turkey about what really happened at 1915 instead of making an official propoganda to Turkish citizens that Armenians killed us, etc. or oppress people who doesn't follow the official government path about the issue and face with our past whether we had a crime or not. And the first rule of the way to search our past is to create a calm discussion enviroment inside Turkey instead of labelling people as traitor.

            What calm talks bring you is islamic government,as you saw in last 15 years..half of the country live in afica standarts, which trasnperancy,and other high values will we search for.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by karakitap
              So what we have to do .... start a transparent argument inside Turkey about what really happened at 1915 instead of making an official propoganda to Turkish citizens that Armenians killed us, etc. or oppress people who doesn't follow the official government path about the issue and face with our past whether we had a crime or not. And the first rule of the way to search our past is to create a calm discussion enviroment inside Turkey instead of labelling people as traitor.
              Hmmm. How and why have you suddenly started to show (compared to your previous writings) some signs of being a reasonably sane sounding person?
              Plenipotentiary meow!

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by bell-the-cat
                Hmmm. How and why have you suddenly started to show (compared to your previous writings) some signs of being a reasonably sane sounding person?
                Well, what I wrote before were about the inferiority complexes, identity problems and obsessive Turkish hatred and racism of diasporan Armenians. And I still agree with my those thoughts. What I wrote now are totally different issues and more related with Turks instead of Armenians. Your diaspora's sick behaviours doesn't mean that Turks are perfect. What I say now is maybe we have to be more openminded and face with our past about this genocide issue. And I still agree,too.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by cemil
                  What calm talks bring you is islamic government,as you saw in last 15 years..half of the country live in afica standarts, which trasnperancy,and other high values will we search for.
                  Well nowadays not the "islamic government" but you are the extremist people in Turkey. And I thing that AKP is far away better than what we saw before, Tansu Ciller, Mesut Yilmaz, Devlet Bahceli, etc.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by karakitap
                    Your diaspora's sick behaviours ...
                    As long as you mischaracterize the just and right Armenian attempts to achieve recognition and apology for the great crimes commited against them - in this totally false, unkowing and unfeeling manner as you do - you will not understand anything.

                    If you were a German denying the Holocaust in such a manner I'm sure some Jewish group would just hunt you down and kill you. I would also consider this to be a justified action. So quit complaining about the current reasoned and restrained actions of Armenians before we decide to pursue other avenues of justified expresion.

                    Comment

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