Please Sign This Petition: Özür diliyoruz

[Sako]

Vahe Jan, can we please all just relax? Someone's gonna get banned again and for pretty much no reason. We have more important things to talk about.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

Vahe Jan, can we please all just relax? Someone's gonna get banned again and for pretty much no reason. We have more important things to talk about.

Who would that be Saco jan, you? Just kidding Saco jan.
Don’t worry about me, I will tack care of myself. But we can not avoid this subject. Ataturk is in the base of denialist policy of turkey....

[Steph]

Who would that be Saco jan, you? Just kidding Saco jan.
Don’t worry about me, I will tack care of myself. But we can not avoid this subject. Ataturk is in the base of denialist policy of turkey....

Correct, in my humble opinion. ataturk continued the Genocide and nearly succeeded, through circumstances which were favourable to him, in nearly completing the Hamidi/CUP work.
Since his deification, the "power" of kemalism is so deeply imbedded in many turks that any criticism of him is met by a knee-jerk reaction.
If we're not careful and listen to somebody "Crying wolf" every time we disagree, no matter what thread or what context we write in, we could end up with a forum where there are more banned members than active.

[lal]

God save the world from racists!!!

Ataturk was the subject that YOU used to cover your racist insult, not a subject that I wrote about in any of my posts that you responded. The only connection was the title of the thread (Ataturk statue in Israel) which I had totally forgot while discussing with Saco. I wrote NOTHING about Ataturk in my posts. I could have written good things about him, and that will still would not give you the right to use the human history's oldest racist insult. So, please stop the demagogy.

ı protest everybody insults Atatürk. read it, that is atatürk.

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=3715

the reason they insult ataturk is that they dont want to see any friendly turks in the world. if you accept that atatürk is a genocider, they will always find another thing about turks to insult.

that is why my opinion is for turkish people,not turkish state though, to apologise for the genocide , because it has happened and it was a criminal act, we are individually or neither turkish republic of today is not responsible for this. it can only be a moral apology from people to people.

but thats it.we must stop there. we never should surrender or give any advantege to armenia republic or armenians untill they really want to be friends with both turks and azeris. then they will learn how to respect and behave properly.

if they go on doing that, we simply leave and they talk to themselves.

[ardakilic]

the reason they insult ataturk is that they dont want to see any friendly turks in the world. if you accept that atatürk is a genocider, they will always find another thing about turks to insult.

OK lal, let's talk about realities:

1. What do you say about Dersim massacres?
2. What do you say about Trakya pogrom against Jews in 1934?
3. What do you say about murder of Ali Sukru Bey?
4. What do you say about Topal Osman, Kara Kemal, Ismail and other Armenian genocide commiters that were sheltered by Kemal?
5. What do you say about murder of Deli Halit Pasha?
6. What do you say about Kockiri?
7. What do you say about Iskilipli Atif Efendi?
8. What do you say about Nadir Nadi and his relation with Nazis?
9. What do you say about Smirna fire?
10. What do you say about Takrir-i Sukun?
11. What do you say about Izmir assasination conspiracy?
12. What do you say about cleansing of Ottoman archives in Kemal's lifetime?
13. What do you say about Kurdish exiles?
14. What do you say about Kemal admits the AG when he needed and deny when he didnt?

[Steph]

ı protest everybody insults Atatürk. read it, that is atatürk.

we never should surrender or give any advantege to armenia republic or armenians untill they really want to be friends with both turks and azeris. then they will learn how to respect and behave properly.if they go on doing that, we simply leave and they talk to themselves.

lal, read that statement you made again.
That reads to me as one of the most arrogant, racist and imperialistic statements I've read on this forum or anywhere.
Armenians can only learn how to be respectful and behave properly when they prostrate themselves at the feet of ataturks statue?
Did you write this or did you just "cut & paste" from a low-budget scum-video from youtube? Shame on you.

lal, once more you bring azerbad,jan into your post. why? you said you know little or nothing about that situation. Why don't you include the Cyprus situation as a pre-condition to moving forward? Oh, sorry that works against turkey doesn't it?

[ardakilic]

lal, read that statement you made again.
That reads to me as one of the most arrogant, racist and imperialistic statements I've read on this forum or anywhere.
Armenians can only learn how to be respectful and behave properly when they prostrate themselves at the feet of ataturks statue?
Did you write this or did you just "cut & paste" from a low-budget scum-video from youtube? Shame on you.

lal, once more you bring azerbad,jan into your post. why? you said you know little or nothing about that situation. Why don't you include the Cyprus situation as a pre-condition to moving forward? Oh, sorry that works against turkey doesn't it?

Steph, please note that what contradictions appear when you try to be both Kemalist and just.

And also note that how a huge taboo it is, even more than a religion?

[Edoman]

Just to make a clarification on the reason why I started this thread about “Ataturks statue in Israel.”

What I m trying to figure out is why do Turks feel so compelled to erect the statue of Ataturk all over the world? I can understand doing this inside Turkey but common now, no other country in the world goes out of its way to do such a thing.

Lal, many Armenians would disagree with me but you must know that in my book Ataturk was a worthy adversary, an Enemy to be respected. I don’t think he was Genocidal.
He was a good Military tactician and a brilliant politician, nothing like other Turks; in fact to me he doesn’t even look like a Turk. He knew how to play his cards right in the most brutal political poker game of the century. The allies chose him for a good reason and it wasn’t for his sharp looks.
He has earned his respect of the Turkish Nation (even though in my opinion he cursed you all to a life of lies) and earned the hate of the Armenians, but to idolize this dictator beyond your borders….do Turks pray to him as well? I mean really, I am just trying to understand.

OK lal, let's talk about realities:

1. What do you say about Dersim massacres?
2. What do you say about Trakya pogrom against Jews in 1934?
3. What do you say about murder of Ali Sukru Bey?
4. What do you say about Topal Osman, Kara Kemal, Ismail and other Armenian genocide commiters that were sheltered by Kemal?
5. What do you say about murder of Deli Halit Pasha?
6. What do you say about Kockiri?
7. What do you say about Iskilipli Atif Efendi?
8. What do you say about Nadir Nadi and his relation with Nazis?
9. What do you say about Smirna fire?
10. What do you say about Takrir-i Sukun?
11. What do you say about Izmir assasination conspiracy?
12. What do you say about cleansing of Ottoman archives in Kemal's lifetime?
13. What do you say about Kurdish exiles?
14. What do you say about Kemal admits the AG when he needed and deny when he didnt?

Holly crap

escuse the french guys

I know nothing compared to you on the subject of Turkish dirt. Talk about details.

TX Arda.

[ardakilic]

I know nothing compared to you on the subject of Turkish dirt. Talk about details.
TX Arda.

I just mentioned his dirts that came my mind in that moment. There can be lots of.

For example, let us deal only one political assasination of him, Ali Sukru Bey.

Ali Sukru Bey was Lazistan deputy at that time. Later, the name Lazistan (land of Lazuri peple) was banned by Kemalist dictatorship like the name Kurdistan. Ali Sukru Bey was so honest and religious man and speaker of the opponent against Kemal because of two reasons: corruptions of the new regime, dictatorship intentions of Kemal.

Finally, Ali Sukru Bey was assasinated by Topal Osman, leader of Kemal's guardsmen troops and also Topal Osman is well-known murderer taking place in AG and Greek massacres in Lazistan-Black Sea region.

After the assasination, Kemal wanted to annihilate Topal Osman. You know, this is a very old tactics: Use the pawn and annihilate the pawn. Topal Osman understood Kemal's intention and sieged Cankaya Kiosk where the dictator's palace located. After some battle, Osman's end happened by his master. Kemal killed two birds with one stone: He got rid of the most excited opponent martyr Ali Sukru Bey and a dirty tool Topal Osman.

[Sako]

Don’t worry about me, I will tack care of myself. But we can not avoid this subject. Ataturk is in the base of denialist policy of turkey....

I didn't mean STOP TALKING ABOUT ATATURK , I meant let's relax and, if neccessary, continue to talk about him. May seems to be pretty upset still and sorry Vahe Jan if this sounds bad but your sarcasm may not get the results we want. Especially when we are talking to people that have already gone from the forums and returned. And please don't tell me something like "that's their problem" because it isn't. We have to all try to keep things under control. Sorry if I sound like the principal lol, I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything.

the reason they insult ataturk is that they dont want to see any friendly turks in the world. if you accept that atatürk is a genocider, they will always find another thing about turks to insult.

Why do you think the entire world loves Ataturk? Is that what you think? Is it just the Armenians that don't like him? Ataturk has become a symbol in Turkey and I think that even if all the proof in the world rose to the surface, showing who Ataturk really was, Turks would STILL love him. It's become a motto. Back then, a lot was messed up so how can Turks be so sure that Ataturk was an Angel? If they aren't sure let them stop defending him as if they knew him personally.

but thats it.we must stop there. we never should surrender or give any advantege to armenia republic or armenians untill they really want to be friends with both turks and azeris. then they will learn how to respect and behave properly.

I guess my instincts were right, again. I knew this is what Lal was trying to say since I began to read her posts and it's simply sad. This is what I was trying to reveal, what her real thoughts were. Well, Lal, let me tell YOU something. Talking about Ataturk in a certain way doesn't make us disrespect Turks in general. If you can't face the facts, that's your problem, not ours. We want to be friends but before that, we have to understand each other AFTER WHICH only can we be proper friends. And it's funny hearing Turks telling us to learn how to respect when they've been disrespecting us for a century. Stop trying to find fault in Armenia. We never said we were angels from heaven. Work on yourselves and we'll work on ourselves. If we see a proper step taken, a lot will change, don't worry, we aren't blind.

How do you want us to become friends with Turks when many of us can't even talk to each other. Many Armenians don't know ANY Turks at all and don't have the ability to talk to Turks to know whether they are good or bad people. We are special people here that have the ability to converse with each other, not everyone has this same opportunity. So how are those people supposed to become friends with Turks? They have to see that the Turks are taking steps forward. That's the only way they'll know things are changing. Many don't know Lal. So how are they supposed to become friends with Turks? Many don't want to because they don't think there are Turks out there that can become friends with them right now. We are so close to each other as countries but the people are really far away from each other in almost every way. Turks and Armenians are too far away from each other. A bridge must be built and friendship isn't enough to build it.

if they go on doing that, we simply leave and they talk to themselves.

You are confused and I'm not going to say another word to you until you reply.

lal, once more you bring azerbad,jan into your post. why? you said you know little or nothing about that situation. Why don't you include the Cyprus situation as a pre-condition to moving forward? Oh, sorry that works against turkey doesn't it?

EXACTLY. And there is pretty much no reason to bring Azerbaijan into the conversation. That's another issue, one Lal talks about but doesn't understand (this doesn't mean you don't understand anything at all. I'm not saying everyone besides you here is a philosopher). The way she says it all is as if Armenia must take all the blame and it's absolutely disgusting. Truly forgive me if this isn't what your thinking. It reads that way though. You've talked about Azerbaijan many times and every time Azerbaijan seemed to be Turkey's brother and Armenia was the one that brought him to his knees.