Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

For somebody who says he is patriotic this is a strange question you ask.............wouldn’t you want to have your own proud state where you can at least practice your language and culture freely without getting waked?

Unless I misunderstood do you consider Northern Iraq Turkish Territory?

You misunderstood me.

I would like to hear your opinions regarding to practicing language and culture freely. What do you actually mean? After clarifying this, I will demonstrate some statistics regarding to Kurdish citizens' opinions about the same issue.

There was no need to say this but actually my mother's and father's mother tangue is not Turkish though they speak Turkish perfectly as if it is their mother tangue and have their own professions. I already have my own proud state which is Turkey.

[Eddo211]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

The most stupid decision ever.

What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey?..............

For somebody who says he is patriotic this is a strange question you ask.............wouldn’t you want to have your own proud state where you can at least practice your language and culture freely without getting waked?

Unless I misunderstood do you consider Northern Iraq Turkish Territory?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

The most stupid decision ever.

What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey? I really can not make discrimination among the citizens of my country let it be Kurdish descent, Turkish or Arab, but I guess this question is legitimate, what about the Kurds in Istanbul?

Good questions. I don't know if the Kurds in those bigger cities feel like they are fully respected as citizens, perhaps they do.

What about the Armenians in Istanbul? Why did Turkey keep them? There was definitely geo political decisions behind the Armenian Genocide and not just some random I hate you, you hate me... we can't live next to each other.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

If northern Iraq was to break away and a "Kurdistan" was formed, don't you think that Kurds would want to be a part of it? I'm sure they would much rather have their own country than their "democratic" rights within Turkey... it's only natural.

Turkish jets hit PKK rebels in northern Iraq- army
ANKARA, May 28 (Reuters) - Turkish jets hit a Kurdish guerrilla group in northern Iraq on Thursday, the Turkish general staff said on its Web site.

"Our jets fulfilled their duty successfully and returned to their bases safely," the statement said, without adding more details. The Turkish air force frequently carries out operations against PKK bases in northern Iraq, but Thursday's operation came after a mine blast killed six Turkish soldiers and wounded 11 in the mainly Kurdish southeast on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/middl...s/idUSLS701083

Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

The most stupid decision ever.

What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey? I really can not make discrimination among the citizens of my country let it be Kurdish descent, Turkish or Arab, but I guess this question is legitimate, what about the Kurds in Istanbul?


Right now, there is a significant gap between the money spent to SouthEast of Turkey and the amount of tax collected. I sometimes think if it really worths to do this

Anyway, I am really confident that that Kurdish issue in Turkey is a combination of feudal structure, lack of infrastructure, low level of education and Turkey's anti-democratic stance against Kurds. The republic failed to transform them into citizens from masses to a certain extent.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Well, my answer to you questions will be neutral so as to have a decent and reasonable conversations.

According to a study by USCWM (United States Center for World Mission) in December 2008

Ethnical Distribution in Turkey is as follows.

Turks: 71%, 52.826.000 ppl
Kurds: 20.8%, 15.426.000 ppl
Arabs: 1.839.000 ppl

Now, Arabs are absolutely loyal to Turkey. I know this by heart.

DTP (Democratic Turkey Party) got 5% of the total votes in April 2009 in local elections. If we assume that all ppl were to vote (regardless of their age) in the last elections, out of 74M people in Turkey, DTP had 3.7M votes from Kurdish descent citizens of Turkey.

Please be aware that most of the ppl that voted for DTP (mainly regarded as a Kurdish party), demand their democratic rights rather than their own independent country.

Cheers

If northern Iraq was to break away and a "Kurdistan" was formed, don't you think that Kurds would want to be a part of it? I'm sure they would much rather have their own country than their "democratic" rights within Turkey... it's only natural.

Turkish jets hit PKK rebels in northern Iraq- army
ANKARA, May 28 (Reuters) - Turkish jets hit a Kurdish guerrilla group in northern Iraq on Thursday, the Turkish general staff said on its Web site.

"Our jets fulfilled their duty successfully and returned to their bases safely," the statement said, without adding more details. The Turkish air force frequently carries out operations against PKK bases in northern Iraq, but Thursday's operation came after a mine blast killed six Turkish soldiers and wounded 11 in the mainly Kurdish southeast on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/middl...s/idUSLS701083

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Aren't those 6 soldiers just a fraction compared to the thousands that have died over the years from PKK attacks? Do the Kurds in Turkey support the PKK?

Well, my answer to you questions will be neutral so as to have a decent and reasonable conversations.

According to a study by USCWM (United States Center for World Mission) in December 2008

Ethnical Distribution in Turkey is as follows.

Turks: 71%, 52.826.000 ppl
Kurds: 20.8%, 15.426.000 ppl
Arabs: 1.839.000 ppl

Now, Arabs are absolutely loyal to Turkey. I know this by heart.

DTP (Democratic Turkey Party) got 5% of the total votes in April 2009 in local elections. If we assume that all ppl were to vote (regardless of their age) in the last elections, out of 74M people in Turkey, DTP had 3.7M votes from Kurdish descent citizens of Turkey.

Please be aware that most of the ppl that voted for DTP (mainly regarded as a Kurdish party), demand their democratic rights rather than their own independent country.

Cheers

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Is there a friendly solution to make this happen? Nothing comes to my mind.

Not only Turkey but also Armenia regards the other as its enemy. This has to be resolved. I know many will say before recognition of AG and return of lands, friendship is not possible.

On the other hand, after all these happen, Turkey loses a great deal of its strategic lands and again friendship is impossible.

Regarding to Kurds, I read lots of posts that says Kurds will establish their independent country in this forum. Let me be straight. Turkey is an interesting country. Yesterday 6 soldiers were killed by a remote controlled mine and the mother of one the Turkish soldiers was mourning in Kurdish language after his beloved son's death. People on this land do not ask why their sons died but rather they say "vatan sağ olsun" (long live the homeland).

Aren't those 6 soldiers just a fraction compared to the thousands that have died over the years from PKK attacks? Do the Kurds in Turkey support the PKK?

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

I think everyone agrees that Armenia needs to reach a sea port or at least have access to one.

Is there a friendly solution to make this happen? Nothing comes to my mind.

Not only Turkey but also Armenia regards the other as its enemy. This has to be resolved. I know many will say before recognition of AG and return of lands, friendship is not possible.

On the other hand, after all these happen, Turkey loses a great deal of its strategic lands and again friendship is impossible.

Regarding to Kurds, I read lots of posts that says Kurds will establish their independent country in this forum. Let me be straight. Turkey is an interesting country. Yesterday 6 soldiers were killed by a remote controlled mine and the mother of one the Turkish soldiers was mourning in Kurdish language after his beloved son's death. People on this land do not ask why their sons died but rather they say "vatan sağ olsun" (long live the homeland).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

I think more important than your emotional connections to ancestral lands (churches, homes, etc. ), you are aware that Armenia needs to reach Black Sea to break its isolation and to have a stronger word to say in the Caucaus. I'll be glad to hear from you more about this.

I think everyone agrees that Armenia needs to reach a sea port or at least have access to one.

Turkey, on the other hand, is absolutely not following a Turanic dream but trying to exploit the advantages in Central Asia which it saw after the fall of Soviet Union. USA will not hesitate to be ally with Turkey on this since this would mean the soviet sphere will be less influential in the energy-rich regions. The problem for USA is that while Turkey has extremely bad relations with Armenia, the US supported actions can not be accomplished. For example, it is too stupid for Nabucco pipeline not to pass through Armenia for USA but Azerbaijan will never ever let this happen.

After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, how is it that the oil was left outside of the borders of Turkey? Just a thought.

The conflicts in the Caucaus must be somehow solved, but what you suggest does not fit to the plans of Turkey.

The conflicts in the Caucaus are wished to be solved by the oil tycoons, they really don't care what happens to the people involved as long as the oil keeps flowing.

Friendship between Armenia and Turkey seems nearly impossible in this century. I guess there is no other two nations in the universe that hate each other as much as Armenians and Turks do (This does not apply to me)

Israel and Iran come to mind.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Well, for starters peace would be a motivation but that doesn't motivate those who are in position to profit from war. The biggest thorn in Turkey's side are the Kurds. That problem doesn't seem to go away and the US presence in Iraq gave more power to PKK in that region. Having a neighboring strong Armenia and the friendship that would result from giving back their ancestral lands would be a motivation for Turks. That wouldn't be ideal for those that wish to create a greater government infrastructure spanning across the entire region from Turkey to Azerbaijan. Bigger and stronger government is never better for the average citizen. Take a look at what the formation of the European Union did to the average citizen.

Please do not write me anything that has something to do with sentiments but I will be gladly engaged into a geo-strategical debate.

I think more important than your emotional connections to ancestral lands (churches, homes, etc. ), you are aware that Armenia needs to reach Black Sea to break its isolation and to have a stronger word to say in the Caucaus. I'll be glad to hear from you more about this.

Turkey, on the other hand, is absolutely not following a Turanic dream but trying to exploit the advantages in Central Asia which it saw after the fall of Soviet Union. USA will not hesitate to be ally with Turkey on this since this would mean the soviet sphere will be less influential in the energy-rich regions. The problem for USA is that while Turkey has extremely bad relations with Armenia, the US supported actions can not be accomplished. For example, it is too stupid for Nabucco pipeline not to pass through Armenia for USA but Azerbaijan will never ever let this happen.

The conflicts in the Caucaus must be somehow solved, but what you suggest does not fit to the plans of Turkey.

Friendship between Armenia and Turkey seems nearly impossible in this century. I guess there is no other two nations in the universe that hate each other as much as Armenians and Turks do (This does not apply to me)