Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 20
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 12 20 template Next
  • #11
    Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
    Turks don't really lose anything... the Turkish government takes a loss... some Kurds get pushed around and everyone is happy... no?
    When Turkey losses strategically, so does the Turks or am I wrong?

    That being said, you did not answer my question. What would be the motivation for Turkey to give up the land? It is a fair question.

    Regarding to the last statement of Erdogan, he is one of the most opportunist PM Turkey ever had. I wish he was sincere since Turkey does not have a good history with her minorities at all especially with the Greek minority. Just remember what he said for the 40000 illegal Armenians working to make a living and send money to their families in Armenia. He is not sincere and I would not even dare to say I would exile those ppl whatever problem my country has with the ROA.

    Let me be clear. Turkey does not have a proper social democratic or leftist movement for which human right issues, democracy or welfare would be important. For that you should also be thankful to US since it was very supportive of the coup d'etat taht took place in 1980. I emphasize that current government is not after a democratic and social state structure.

    The bottomline is Erdogan might say just the opposite next month. It should not be a big surprize for you.

    P.S. I have read almost all the comments regarding to Turkey and Armenia in this forum (at least those until 2006). I know that you people have a tendency to call most of the Turks as grey wolves. Please be aware that I am a patriotic for my country but definitely not a greywolf.

    Cheers

    Comment

    • #12
      Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

      Originally posted by firat View Post
      When Turkey losses strategically, so does the Turks or am I wrong?

      That being said, you did not answer my question. What would be the motivation for Turkey to give up the land? It is a fair question.
      Well, for starters peace would be a motivation but that doesn't motivate those who are in position to profit from war. The biggest thorn in Turkey's side are the Kurds. That problem doesn't seem to go away and the US presence in Iraq gave more power to PKK in that region. Having a neighboring strong Armenia and the friendship that would result from giving back their ancestral lands would be a motivation for Turks. That wouldn't be ideal for those that wish to create a greater government infrastructure spanning across the entire region from Turkey to Azerbaijan. Bigger and stronger government is never better for the average citizen. Take a look at what the formation of the European Union did to the average citizen.
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

      Comment

      • #13
        Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

        Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
        Well, for starters peace would be a motivation but that doesn't motivate those who are in position to profit from war. The biggest thorn in Turkey's side are the Kurds. That problem doesn't seem to go away and the US presence in Iraq gave more power to PKK in that region. Having a neighboring strong Armenia and the friendship that would result from giving back their ancestral lands would be a motivation for Turks. That wouldn't be ideal for those that wish to create a greater government infrastructure spanning across the entire region from Turkey to Azerbaijan. Bigger and stronger government is never better for the average citizen. Take a look at what the formation of the European Union did to the average citizen.

        Please do not write me anything that has something to do with sentiments but I will be gladly engaged into a geo-strategical debate.

        I think more important than your emotional connections to ancestral lands (churches, homes, etc. ), you are aware that Armenia needs to reach Black Sea to break its isolation and to have a stronger word to say in the Caucaus. I'll be glad to hear from you more about this.

        Turkey, on the other hand, is absolutely not following a Turanic dream but trying to exploit the advantages in Central Asia which it saw after the fall of Soviet Union. USA will not hesitate to be ally with Turkey on this since this would mean the soviet sphere will be less influential in the energy-rich regions. The problem for USA is that while Turkey has extremely bad relations with Armenia, the US supported actions can not be accomplished. For example, it is too stupid for Nabucco pipeline not to pass through Armenia for USA but Azerbaijan will never ever let this happen.

        The conflicts in the Caucaus must be somehow solved, but what you suggest does not fit to the plans of Turkey.

        Friendship between Armenia and Turkey seems nearly impossible in this century. I guess there is no other two nations in the universe that hate each other as much as Armenians and Turks do (This does not apply to me)

        Comment

        • #14
          Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

          Originally posted by firat View Post
          I think more important than your emotional connections to ancestral lands (churches, homes, etc. ), you are aware that Armenia needs to reach Black Sea to break its isolation and to have a stronger word to say in the Caucaus. I'll be glad to hear from you more about this.
          I think everyone agrees that Armenia needs to reach a sea port or at least have access to one.

          Originally posted by firat View Post
          Turkey, on the other hand, is absolutely not following a Turanic dream but trying to exploit the advantages in Central Asia which it saw after the fall of Soviet Union. USA will not hesitate to be ally with Turkey on this since this would mean the soviet sphere will be less influential in the energy-rich regions. The problem for USA is that while Turkey has extremely bad relations with Armenia, the US supported actions can not be accomplished. For example, it is too stupid for Nabucco pipeline not to pass through Armenia for USA but Azerbaijan will never ever let this happen.
          After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, how is it that the oil was left outside of the borders of Turkey? Just a thought.

          Originally posted by firat View Post
          The conflicts in the Caucaus must be somehow solved, but what you suggest does not fit to the plans of Turkey.
          The conflicts in the Caucaus are wished to be solved by the oil tycoons, they really don't care what happens to the people involved as long as the oil keeps flowing.


          Originally posted by firat View Post
          Friendship between Armenia and Turkey seems nearly impossible in this century. I guess there is no other two nations in the universe that hate each other as much as Armenians and Turks do (This does not apply to me)
          Israel and Iran come to mind.
          "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

          Comment

          • #15
            Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

            Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
            I think everyone agrees that Armenia needs to reach a sea port or at least have access to one.
            Is there a friendly solution to make this happen? Nothing comes to my mind.

            Not only Turkey but also Armenia regards the other as its enemy. This has to be resolved. I know many will say before recognition of AG and return of lands, friendship is not possible.

            On the other hand, after all these happen, Turkey loses a great deal of its strategic lands and again friendship is impossible.

            Regarding to Kurds, I read lots of posts that says Kurds will establish their independent country in this forum. Let me be straight. Turkey is an interesting country. Yesterday 6 soldiers were killed by a remote controlled mine and the mother of one the Turkish soldiers was mourning in Kurdish language after his beloved son's death. People on this land do not ask why their sons died but rather they say "vatan sağ olsun" (long live the homeland).

            Comment

            • #16
              Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

              Originally posted by firat View Post
              Is there a friendly solution to make this happen? Nothing comes to my mind.

              Not only Turkey but also Armenia regards the other as its enemy. This has to be resolved. I know many will say before recognition of AG and return of lands, friendship is not possible.

              On the other hand, after all these happen, Turkey loses a great deal of its strategic lands and again friendship is impossible.

              Regarding to Kurds, I read lots of posts that says Kurds will establish their independent country in this forum. Let me be straight. Turkey is an interesting country. Yesterday 6 soldiers were killed by a remote controlled mine and the mother of one the Turkish soldiers was mourning in Kurdish language after his beloved son's death. People on this land do not ask why their sons died but rather they say "vatan sağ olsun" (long live the homeland).
              Aren't those 6 soldiers just a fraction compared to the thousands that have died over the years from PKK attacks? Do the Kurds in Turkey support the PKK?
              "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

              Comment

              • #17
                Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                Aren't those 6 soldiers just a fraction compared to the thousands that have died over the years from PKK attacks? Do the Kurds in Turkey support the PKK?
                Well, my answer to you questions will be neutral so as to have a decent and reasonable conversations.

                According to a study by USCWM (United States Center for World Mission) in December 2008

                Ethnical Distribution in Turkey is as follows.

                Turks: 71%, 52.826.000 ppl
                Kurds: 20.8%, 15.426.000 ppl
                Arabs: 1.839.000 ppl

                Now, Arabs are absolutely loyal to Turkey. I know this by heart.

                DTP (Democratic Turkey Party) got 5% of the total votes in April 2009 in local elections. If we assume that all ppl were to vote (regardless of their age) in the last elections, out of 74M people in Turkey, DTP had 3.7M votes from Kurdish descent citizens of Turkey.

                Please be aware that most of the ppl that voted for DTP (mainly regarded as a Kurdish party), demand their democratic rights rather than their own independent country.

                Cheers

                Comment

                • #18
                  Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                  Originally posted by firat View Post
                  Well, my answer to you questions will be neutral so as to have a decent and reasonable conversations.

                  According to a study by USCWM (United States Center for World Mission) in December 2008

                  Ethnical Distribution in Turkey is as follows.

                  Turks: 71%, 52.826.000 ppl
                  Kurds: 20.8%, 15.426.000 ppl
                  Arabs: 1.839.000 ppl

                  Now, Arabs are absolutely loyal to Turkey. I know this by heart.

                  DTP (Democratic Turkey Party) got 5% of the total votes in April 2009 in local elections. If we assume that all ppl were to vote (regardless of their age) in the last elections, out of 74M people in Turkey, DTP had 3.7M votes from Kurdish descent citizens of Turkey.

                  Please be aware that most of the ppl that voted for DTP (mainly regarded as a Kurdish party), demand their democratic rights rather than their own independent country.

                  Cheers
                  If northern Iraq was to break away and a "Kurdistan" was formed, don't you think that Kurds would want to be a part of it? I'm sure they would much rather have their own country than their "democratic" rights within Turkey... it's only natural.

                  Turkish jets hit PKK rebels in northern Iraq- army
                  ANKARA, May 28 (Reuters) - Turkish jets hit a Kurdish guerrilla group in northern Iraq on Thursday, the Turkish general staff said on its Web site.

                  "Our jets fulfilled their duty successfully and returned to their bases safely," the statement said, without adding more details. The Turkish air force frequently carries out operations against PKK bases in northern Iraq, but Thursday's operation came after a mine blast killed six Turkish soldiers and wounded 11 in the mainly Kurdish southeast on Wednesday.

                  http://www.reuters.com/article/middl...s/idUSLS701083
                  "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

                  Comment

                  • #19
                    Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                    If northern Iraq was to break away and a "Kurdistan" was formed, don't you think that Kurds would want to be a part of it? I'm sure they would much rather have their own country than their "democratic" rights within Turkey... it's only natural.

                    Turkish jets hit PKK rebels in northern Iraq- army
                    ANKARA, May 28 (Reuters) - Turkish jets hit a Kurdish guerrilla group in northern Iraq on Thursday, the Turkish general staff said on its Web site.

                    "Our jets fulfilled their duty successfully and returned to their bases safely," the statement said, without adding more details. The Turkish air force frequently carries out operations against PKK bases in northern Iraq, but Thursday's operation came after a mine blast killed six Turkish soldiers and wounded 11 in the mainly Kurdish southeast on Wednesday.

                    http://www.reuters.com/article/middl...s/idUSLS701083
                    Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

                    The most stupid decision ever.

                    What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey? I really can not make discrimination among the citizens of my country let it be Kurdish descent, Turkish or Arab, but I guess this question is legitimate, what about the Kurds in Istanbul?


                    Right now, there is a significant gap between the money spent to SouthEast of Turkey and the amount of tax collected. I sometimes think if it really worths to do this

                    Anyway, I am really confident that that Kurdish issue in Turkey is a combination of feudal structure, lack of infrastructure, low level of education and Turkey's anti-democratic stance against Kurds. The republic failed to transform them into citizens from masses to a certain extent.

                    Comment

                    • #20
                      Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                      Originally posted by firat View Post
                      Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

                      The most stupid decision ever.

                      What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey? I really can not make discrimination among the citizens of my country let it be Kurdish descent, Turkish or Arab, but I guess this question is legitimate, what about the Kurds in Istanbul?
                      Good questions. I don't know if the Kurds in those bigger cities feel like they are fully respected as citizens, perhaps they do.

                      What about the Armenians in Istanbul? Why did Turkey keep them? There was definitely geo political decisions behind the Armenian Genocide and not just some random I hate you, you hate me... we can't live next to each other.
                      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

                      Comment

                      Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 12 20 template Next
                      Working...
                      X