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Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

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  • #31
    Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

    Originally posted by firat View Post
    Yes, use that against ultra-nationalist Turks as if they are the ones suffering from the fights in SouthEastern Anatolia. They are definetely not, my friend. I don't think they want this fight to come to an end. Their ideology is based on this fight. Without the enemy, they can not exist either.

    The very same applies to the ultra-nationalist Armenians. Again, Turks are the reasons of the existence of ultra-nationalists' ideology. Same goes for ulta-nationalist Turks.

    I never understand how some people in the world want to see other nation's suffering. Too many Armenians and Turks are examples of this traumatic case. Don't presume that I don't know your explanation to this situation.

    I just think that both Armenians and Turks must be liberated from the suffering. You guys and ladies are absolutely right about an issue. Turks have no idea about what your great grant parents passed through. Yet, you are giving Turks some reason to carry out this hate. You want revenge and it is the basic human instict to protect him/herself from getting harmed. Say they turn out to be ultra-nationalist or something else but this is exactly what is happening.

    So, what is the solution? I unfortunately do not see any. Someone is going to give up and hatred will go on as it used to before. This thing, whatever we call it comprimise or something else, must be accomplished by mutual understanding. That was the very reason why I defended open borders so that people start to speak rather than being mainpulated by their media knowing that it was not best course of action for Turkish interests.

    But again, geopolitics and conflicting interests of the two countries do not let this happen. Do you believe that PM of Turkey changed policy in the last month? Yes, that is for sure. And also I am absolutely sure that President Obama already knew things would turn out like that from the day one when he said Meds Yeghern but not genocide. It is a rare case for Turkey to make politics against US interest, (1974 Cyprus intervention and not letting US soldier pass through Turkish land before Iraq invasion == the only cases for opposite examples)

    No body cares Armenian suffering but your own people. The same applies for the suffering of Kurds and Turks as well. It is only us who can solve this problem. Someone like you supports Kurds against Turkish ultra-nationalists and another group of people supports you against Turkish ultra-nationalist. Do you have the feeling that Kurds have gained anything so far?

    The answer is they got nothing but suffering together with Turks. Only stupid nations let others to solve their own problems. No major power will help anyone without its own benefit. So far, it was the Turks who gave them more or in other words they got more benefits to support Turks.
    Nicely written.
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

      Originally posted by seruven View Post
      I liked the above article a lot, and hence wanted to share it with you. Sorry for any possible translation errors (corrections are welcome). I am not capable of doing a comprehensive translation, so just wanted to transmit the essence.
      Good job. Did you use an application?
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

        Has Erdogan altered his announcements on the Armenian Genocide?

        Erdogan Criticizes Turkey’s Past and Accuses the Kemalists of Ethnic Cleansing
        http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=32406


        On May 23 2009, during a congress of Turkey’s ruling Party (Justice and Development Party) in Duzce, Eastern Turkey, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan made an important announcement. He criticized Turkish nationalism and called the Kemalist foundation of the Republic of Turkey “fascist” because of the ethnic cleansing of the Armenian and Greek minorities. Erdogan said, “For many years Turkey has been ethnically cleansed of its minorities because of their cultural and ethnic difference vis-à-vis the Turkish identity. This was the result of fascism and we as the Justice and Development Party have been trapped in this wrong political approach and have committed similar errors”.

        The President of the Armenian National Committee of Canada, Dr. Girair Basmadjian considers Erdogan’s announcement as an improvement in the domestic politics of Turkey after a continuous denialist politics adopted by the deep state. “Since the creation of modern Turkey, successive governments have adopted a policy of Turkification and have mistreated its minorities. Erdogan’s announcement is canceled the first made by a Prime Minister accepting Turkey’s past mistakes and may be considered as a first step for an eventual apology to the Armenian population for its extermination by the Ottoman government in 1915. However we should not be too optimistic because the current Turkish government and academia includes numerous influential “fascists” and it is not clear if Erdogan’s real intent is to oppose them. Only a few months ago Professor Turkaya Ataov delivered a “fascist” speech calling the West racist and denying the Armenian Genocide”.

        Finally, the Turkish public is faced with an unprecedented choice to decide which version of history leads to its future, is it the version adopted by the deep state, people like Ataov and prosecutors who deny the events of 1915 and try to mislead their own people by penalizing the open discussion of the Armenian Genocide with the adoption of article 301 of the penal code? Or the true version that Erdogan referred to that leads to a peaceful coexistence with neighbors and regional actors and brings Turkey closer to democratic Europe? Only time will show if the true version will finally succeed to lead Turkey to European integration, however if the version adopted by the deep state prevails, Turkey risks its isolation in the eyes of Europe and the international community.
        "All truth passes through three stages:
        First, it is ridiculed;
        Second, it is violently opposed; and
        Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

        Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

          Originally posted by Gavur View Post
          Good job. Did you use an application?
          Looked up the dictionary a few times. Applications like Google Translate do not work properly. Gavur, do you know any Turkish BTW?
          (Wondered due to your nickname.)
          "The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried." recorded by At-Tirmidhee.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

            Yes I'm a polyglot writer as well.Transalations are hard and tidious to do , your a natural!
            Last edited by Gavur; 05-30-2009, 04:47 AM. Reason: Grammar
            "All truth passes through three stages:
            First, it is ridiculed;
            Second, it is violently opposed; and
            Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

            Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

              Originally posted by firat View Post
              ....I don't think they want this fight to come to an end. Their ideology is based on this fight. Without the enemy, they can not exist either.
              That is exactly what I was trying to say. Did you know that Turkey during the Bush Administration had several chances to completely destroy PKK in Iraq but every time they started pulling out right before Bush even finished his speech asking Turkey to back off.


              Originally posted by firat View Post
              .....Someone like you supports Kurds against Turkish ultra-nationalists and another group of people supports you against Turkish ultra-nationalist. Do you have the feeling that Kurds have gained anything so far?
              You misunderstood. What I said was that I would use it to put them to shame and diffuse their lies and propaganda in front of other readers.
              Also your comparison is flawed. Armenia is on the defensive and must do all it can to preserve what is left…………there is no other choice, they leave us no choice. As a small example just look at all the anti-Armenian popup adds next to some of the posts here and ask yourself why that is.

              Keep that Kurdish flag up in Northern Iraq!
              B0zkurt Hunter

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
                As a small example just look at all the anti-Armenian popup adds next to some of the posts here and ask yourself why that is.

                Keep that Kurdish flag up in Northern Iraq!
                That's google's brilliant programmers scanning the subject matter on our posts and advertising using certain "key words". If we start talking about breast implants or breast enlargements, the ads may change accordingly watch the sexy ads pop up!!!
                "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                  Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
                  That is exactly what I was trying to say. Did you know that Turkey during the Bush Administration had several chances to completely destroy PKK in Iraq but every time they started pulling out right before Bush even finished his speech asking Turkey to back off.
                  First things first. I am not an advocate of my country's government. I am sure that Turkish armed forces have the necessary resources to kill all PKK members without leaving anyone alive . This does not solve our Kurdish issue. PKK is a result of our Kurdish issue, it is not the reason. I previously wrote how I regard the Kurdish issue and PKK. I don't want to rewrite them.


                  Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
                  You misunderstood. What I said was that I would use it to put them to shame and diffuse their lies and propaganda in front of other readers.
                  Also your comparison is flawed. Armenia is on the defensive and must do all it can to preserve what is left…………there is no other choice, they leave us no choice. As a small example just look at all the anti-Armenian popup adds next to some of the posts here and ask yourself why that is.
                  What I'm writing is an analysis of how I see things in Turkey.

                  Turkey is not the same country like it was 30 years ago. People in this country are more confident compared to 30 years ago. Turks are aware that Kurdish descent citizen in this country have a problem and they want it to be solved peacefully. Make sure that they want it to be solved and they do not care what others think since they believe that there exists a biased view about Turkey especially coming from West. What I think is USA and Turkey came to an agreement about the issue.

                  Besides, in the minds of Turks, Armenia is the aggressor not Turkey. You think just the opposite. I really don't know what the reality is. Both sides have strong arguments.




                  Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post

                  Keep that Kurdish flag up in Northern Iraq!
                  I really don't know what this means.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                    Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post

                    As a small example just look at all the anti-Armenian popup adds next to some of the posts here and ask yourself why that is.
                    when I use Just == think about the definition in Plato's Republic.

                    Let this be the last time I say I am not an advocate of my country's government.

                    I have the freedom to be just since I am not a politician however a politician can not be just if something he thinks to be just is against his country's interests.

                    Thus, Turkish government or any other government in the world will not be just if things are against them unless they don't have the power to be unjust. It seems currently Turkey has this power. The government has to stop anything against country's interests.

                    From this point of view, Turkish government is rational (it protects Turkey's interests). Let me be clear, I hate the way the world is. But US or Russian government has done the very same things over and over in every war their countries engaged. USA only apoligised after the problems are settled down.
                    Turkey is not in the position to admit anything.

                    Yes, sometimes politics sucks and do not judge me based on what I wrote since this is an analysis of the reality.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

                      My advice: Get Firefox and install Adblocker

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