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Hip Hop vs. Rap ...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Crissy
    i wouldn't have thought so.....
    That's because they are not. I already, in my first and maybe second posts, detailed the major differences b/w the two. One Way even contributed when he talked about the elements of Hip Hop. The song Shallow Days by Blackalicious talks about this topic and I have posted the lyrics on this thread if you wanna read.

    Broken down to its most simple form Hip Hop is a culture AND a style of music where Rap is a style of music AND a bunch of narcissistic crapola. The differences are not so much musical as they are cultural.

    Wino I hate to disappoint you but Hip Hop most definitely came first. Rapping was the lyrical delivery MCs (Masters of Ceremony) that Rappers (i.e. a title like DJ) would use to hype up their DJ in the beginning.

    Its well know that Kool Herc and a few others are primarily responsible for bringing Hip Hop NOT Rap over here to the U.S. in the 1970s from Jamaica to the Bronx. The DJ was originally the main act performing where the MC was just there to hype the crowd and his DJ up.

    The MC was just another part of the crew(s) that "battled" for the right to be the best. The best crew out there gets more gigs more money and so on. They "battled" by seeing who could rock the crowd best ... Busy Bee is a good example of an MC like this, also Grandmaster Flash (DJ) and the Furious 5.

    Today you can still see this style of traditional crew battling in the form of Reggae "Sound Clashes". This is where two or more, I think, "Sound Systems" will go at it to see who can hype the crowd up best. Which "System" has the newest hottest tracks, the ultimate in rare jams, and the hottest remixes out there will usually win.

    The pivotal MC battle was b/w Busy Bee and Kool Mo Dee, I forget which year. The deal there was that Busy came out battling with all the "hype your party" type of lyrics and then Kool Mo Dee comes out and just serves and crushes Busy Bee really REALLY hard displaying the new lyrical delivery already know as rapping. It had just developed to the point that the lyricist was now capable of being as much of a star as the DJ.

    See the DJ was busy beat juggling to keep a 4 bar (could be larger or amaller) break (small section in a song where the drummer is solo) and extend the more funky moments of a song. There weren't a lot of Hip Hop records out there in the beginning (lol) so producers/Djs had to find the break down sections to supply the beat. Good example is Another One Bites the Dust by Queen or Good Times by Chic. Using doubles (two of the same record) the DJ can isolate and repeat the section of these songs that they desire however big or small.

    Ppl like Afrika Bambaataa would go through extraordinary lengths to protect these rare break finds. They would soak the labels off the record so no one would be able to figure out who the record artist was sometimes even Bambaataa himself! He would just feed Djs like Jazzy Jay with an endless supply of rare grooves and breaks that would keep the ppl dancing.

    So anyway Dj'ing and Hip Hop actually came first and Rap developed at the same time and eventually out grew its britches and became the brat we all know it as today. When Kool Herc was bringing over Hip Hop Jamaicans were already "rapping", actually so were we (James Brown and Last Poets), although they called it Toasting and they did it over instrumental dubs.

    Maybe what I just wrote will help to clarify my position and drop a little science on this thread.

    As far as Dj'ing goes it has at this moment developed into Turntablism and is doing quite well ... for your viewing pleasure here is the 2005 and 2004 World DMC (Disco Music Club) Champion!!! Hailing from the U.S. here is Dj I-Emerge!! **WARNING!! WARNING!! There COULD BE profane words in one of these links I'm a not sure I don't think so. Maybe in the 2004 winning set. Ok actually there IS cussing on the 2004 so if you want to check it out go here and click on thew 2004 I-Emerge Winning set. It's better than the 2005 imo**
    I'm just glad he brought the title BACK to the US, and held on to, after a pretty long dry spell.
    DJ I-Emerge 2005 winning set ...

    This next Dj crew from France shows how ppl are using the art of Turntablism to create all sorts of styles of music ... interesting stuff. The French are wacky!
    C2C DJ Crew from France winning 2005 Team set DMC World ...

    It's not worth watching unless you have high speed. I actually like the 2004 "set" better than the 2005. Still my favorite part of the 2005 set is at about 2:07. Up to that point it's a bunch of super technical beat juggling that doesn’t come across well over the interweb.

    Anyway if you no likey I understand ...

    Comment

    • #22
      Actually there was street rap going on in NYC long before any albums were made..and the whole "scratch" D'Jing and RAP went together - before there was ever such a beast as Hip Hop per se...

      Comment

      • #23
        Originally posted by winoman
        Actually there was street rap going on in NYC long before any albums were made..and the whole "scratch" D'Jing and RAP went together - before there was ever such a beast as Hip Hop per se...
        I am not going to reiterate myself just know that this is not a commonly held belief in the world of Hip Hop and Rap for all of the historical reasons I mentioned before. It's just an inaccurate view of how the events and timeline unfolded. Spoken word and rapping shouldn't be squashed together either.

        Comment

        • #24
          What perhaps you are terming "spoken word" was (is?) in fact rap - this is what rap was all about. Anyway its immaterial - much of this is worthwhile and a great deal is just total trash - I like most any music (except country except for a few classics...and I'm not a Perry Como fan either BTW... ) and I can appreciate the talent and creativity of many in these genres - though I would be lying if I said it was my favorite from of music (RAP/Hip Hop and all in this overall genre)...still Grandmaster Flash in particular is one of my all time favs...

          Comment

          • #25
            Originally posted by winoman
            What perhaps you are terming "spoken word" was (is?) in fact rap - this is what rap was all about. Anyway its immaterial - much of this is worthwhile and a great deal is just total trash - I like most any music (except country except for a few classics...and I'm not a Perry Como fan either BTW... ) and I can appreciate the talent and creativity of many in these genres - though I would be lying if I said it was my favorite from of music (RAP/Hip Hop and all in this overall genre)...still Grandmaster Flash in particular is one of my all time favs...
            The Adventures Of Grandmaster Flash On The Wheels Of Steel is one of my all time favs.

            You know Hip Hop is definitely NOT the only music I listen to. I don't listen to modern rock as I think it totally sux. I love what ppl refer to as Northern Soul music. I also like to dig up old music for production work so I listen to a lot of everything. Blue Grass~Classical~Jazz~EmoCore~Rat Pack~Industrial~Jam Band~Punk~Country you name it, all vinyl I also love most forms of electronic and dance music. Love classic rock & oldies.

            Anyway Hip Hop is sort of the musical culture that I appreciate the most as it can be rebellious, autonomous, witty/clever, competitive, and community/family oriented. I see it as a positive cultural force. More so than any other genre of music imo. Other than Christian music LOL!! It's sort of punkish these days which is also cool.

            POST YOUR FAVORITE LYRICS!! Before this thread is destroyed for eva and eva!

            Comment

            • #26
              Lamb Boy,
              I like Black Music - be it North American, African or Latin American - but I'll have to admit that the quality of the lyrics of Rap Music has degraded with time. However, I'll try to contribute when I find the time.


              Click to listen.

              Television, the Drug of the nation by Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy

              one nation
              under God
              has turned into
              one nation under the influence
              of one drug

              [chorus:]
              Television, the drug of the Nation
              Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
              (2x)

              T.V., it
              satellite links
              our United States of Unconsciousness
              Apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
              The methadone metronome pumping out
              150 channels 24 hours a day
              you can flip through all of them
              and still there's nothing worth watching
              T.V. is the reason why less than 10 per cent of our
              Nation reads books daily
              Why most people think Central Amerika
              means Kansas
              Socialism means unamerican
              and Apartheid is a new headache remedy
              absorbed in it's world it's so hard to find us
              It shapes our mind the most
              maybe the mother of our Nation
              should remind us
              that we're sitting too close to...

              [Chorus:]
              Television, the drug of the Nation
              Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
              (2x)

              T.V. is
              the stomping ground for political candidates
              Where bears in the woods
              are chased by Grecian Formula'd
              bald eagles
              T.V. is mechanized politic's
              remote control over the masses
              co-sponsored by environmentally safe gases
              watch for the PBS special
              It's the perpetuation of the two party system
              where image takes precedence over wisdom
              Where sound bite politics are served to
              the fastfood culture
              Where straight teeth in your mouth
              are more important than the words
              that come out of it
              Race baiting is the way to get selected
              Willie Horton or
              Will he not get elected on...

              [Chorus:]
              Television, the drug of the Nation
              Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
              (2x)

              T.V., is it the reflector or the director?
              Does it imitate us
              or do we imitate it
              because a child watches 1500 murders before he's
              twelve years old and we wonder why we've created
              a Jason generation that learns to laugh
              rather than to abhor the horror
              T.V. is the place where
              armchair generals and quarterbacks can
              experience first hand
              the excitement of warfare
              as the theme song is sung in the background
              Sugar sweet sitcoms
              that leave us with a bad actor taste while
              pop stars metamorphosize into soda pop stars
              You saw the video
              You heard the soundtrack
              Well now go buy the soft drink
              Well, the onla cola that I support
              would be a union C.O.L.A.(Cost Of Living Allowance)
              On television

              [Chorus:]
              Television, the drug of the Nation
              Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
              (2x)

              Back again, "New and improved"
              We return to our irregularly programmed schedule
              hidden cleverly between heavy breasted
              beer and car commercials
              CNNESPNABCTNT but mostly B.S.
              Where oxymoronic language like
              "virtually spotless", "fresh frozen"
              "light yet filling" and "military intelligence"
              have become standard
              T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined
              like "recession" to "necessary downturn"
              "Crude oil" on a beach to "mousse"
              "Civilian death" to "collateral damages"
              and being killed by your own Army
              is now called "friendly fire"
              T.V. is the place where the pursuit
              of happiness has become the pursuit of
              trivia
              Where toothpaste and cars have become
              sex objects
              Where imagination is sucked out of children
              by a cathode ray nipple
              T.V. is the only wet nurse
              that would create a cripple

              [Chorus:]
              Television, the drug of the Nation
              Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
              (4x)
              Last edited by Siamanto; 11-18-2005, 11:42 PM.
              What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

              Comment

              • #27
                Click to listen.


                Kid Frost - Ain't No Sunshine

                What is time? Time is when a man is trying to make time with your
                woman,
                but your doing time behind bars and your time is standing still.
                Yo
                Frost, kick it to these people for real you know what I'm
                saying?
                [verse 1 - Frost]
                Time, sits through the hour glass, through night and day
                and I watch as the games people play
                It's like do unto others than split
                and if you can't back up what you say then you ain't xxxx (yeah)
                I've seen the manifestations of the street
                so why can't I confess what I see on a drumbeat
                like just last night (yo what happened)
                I watched these two vatos get in a crazy fight
                one of them was quick to pull a knife
                he stabbed him in the heart and now he's doing life
                in prison at the age of 21 (yeah)
                living on death row cause he couldn't let go
                caught in the web of violence (damn)
                roll deep when they creep, and move in silence of the lambs (yo)
                a tattooed tear dropped as the iron gates slam
                [chorus - Bill Withers & Frost]
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Anytime, hey - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine, Anytime - Bill Withers
                [verse 2 - Frost]
                Damn, damn ain't that a shame?
                you're lost so take the caution don't play the game
                should've listen to the Frost when I was trying to come across
                to you
                but no you didn't think (sucker)
                you just keep getting yourself more deep until you sink
                so there's no one else to thank but yourself
                so go ahead take bow for a job well done
                but you'll never see the day of the sunshine or the fun times
                just the old days and your old ways
                corrupt and wicked
                out there doing dirt, instead of just kicking it
                pow pow bang bang and all that noise (yeah)
                yeah you and all your homeboys
                take time to read between the lines
                cause ain't no sunshine
                [chorus]
                [verse 3 - Frost]
                (yo kid) I know about being macho
                callin' the shots the big time head honcho (yeah)
                but here's something even more gacho
                one of my homeboys is your old lady Sancho
                yo xxxx happens
                I know the lights of all these people right as I'm rapping
                while you sit in a cell writing a letter
                saying when you get out, your things will be better (right)
                but man she couldn't wait
                so she's going out on a date
                with every Tom, xxxx, and Harry
                and if you ask me, your xxxx's getting scary
                so how you gonna handle this
                when your home's in Los Angeles
                acting so scandalous
                yo, you can't blame her you didn't take the time
                and now, ain't no sunshine
                [chorus]
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                That's for you, '92 you know what I'm saying? - Prince Teddy
                Anytime, yeah - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine - Frost
                Ain't no sunshine, Anytime - Bill Withers
                Damn - Frost
                [interlude - Prince Teddy]
                So if you don't wanna do no time, you better take time to try to
                draw
                the line you know what I'm saying? Or you're gonna be the next
                fool in
                line
                doing time, you know what I'm saying? Like my man said...
                [chorus]
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't no sunshine fool - Prince Teddy
                Ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                Ain't nothing happening up there you know what I'm saying? -
                Prince
                Teddy
                Ain't no sunshine, Anytime - Bill Withers
                Yo, me and Frost is out of here, Peace - Prince Teddy
                There just ain't no sunshine - Bill Withers
                (laughing)
                What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

                Comment

                • #28
                  Oh wow, and we are to be thrilled by "conscious hip hop". Hip-hop/rap, call it what you will, started in the streets, by little black kids and profanity. There was nothing "conscious" about it when it started in the 60s (the whole "conscious" movement being a modern idea trying to redeem the image of rap/hip hop), where bored black youth, who were not in school or unemployed or didn't join the rank of the black marxist movement, spent their times rapping about day to day shyt.
                  Achkerov kute.

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    Could not find the lyrics on the Web and don't have time to write it down. Sorry!

                    Click to listen.
                    What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Anonymouse
                      Oh wow, and we are to be thrilled by "conscious hip hop". Hip-hop/rap, call it what you will, started in the streets, by little black kids and profanity. There was nothing "conscious" about it when it started in the 60s (the whole "conscious" movement being a modern idea trying to redeem the image of rap/hip hop), where bored black youth, who were not in school or unemployed or didn't join the rank of the black marxist movement, spent their times rapping about day to day shyt.
                      We are so thrilled by your "positive" contribution, Mr. nose-it-all! Thank you!
                      Last edited by Siamanto; 11-19-2005, 12:31 AM.
                      What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

                      Comment

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