Muslims occupy Europe

[Anonymouse]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

I can't believe we have a whole thread dedicated to the tolerant and sophisticated discussion of Muslim issues in the current political climate. I never knew it was possible.

Here I thought I was clicking on a thread with a bunch of ill-informed insecurities about Muslims in America propogated by the Neo-conservative party line and Fox News, but after reading posts by Eddo and gegev I definitely came to the conclusion that they are definitely interested in well-informed and balanced discussions, not the cold-hearted partisan divisiveness that is dependent on casting aside all contrary evidence to reinforce a much dependent prism of thought.

Any notion that they are engaged in fostering a shock value and trying to sweep under the carpet any difference of opinion or information contrary to their paradigm, do not be concerned, for they are truly free thinkers and the bastions of enlightenment. Why, gegev is even kind enough to use different font colors.

[gegev]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

History lessons.

http://factreal.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/muslim-crusades-started-four-centuries-before-the-western-crusades/

MUSLIM CRUSADES Started Four Centuries Before the Western Crusades

Posted by FactReal on February 12, 2010
Islamics Launched their Crusades in 630 A.D.
Western Crusades started in 1095 A.D. to Stop Muslim Invasion
The Crusades were started by the Muslims in the year 630 A.D. when Muhammad invaded and conquered Mecca. Later on, Muslims invaded Syria, Iraq, Jerusalem, Iran, Egypt, Africa, Spain, Italy, France, etc. The Western Crusades started around 1095 to try to stop the Islamic aggressive invasions. Islamic Crusades continued even after the Western Crusades.

ISLAMIC CRUSADES
630 – Muhammad conquers Mecca from his base in Medina.
632 – Muhammad dies in Medina. Islam controls the Hijaz.
636 – Muslims conquest of Syria, and the surrounding lands, all Christian – including Palestine and Iraq.
637 – Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq (some date it in 635 or 636)
638 – Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.
638 – 650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.
639 – 642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.
641 – Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.
643 – 707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.
644 – 650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.
673 – 678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire
691 – Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.
710 – 713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.
711 – 713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. The Muslim conquest moves into Europe.
718 – Conquest of Spain complete.
732 – Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the Battle of Poitiers / Battle of Tours. The Franks, under their leader
Charles Martel (the grandfather of Charlemagne), defeat the Muslims and turn them back out of France.
762 – Foundation of Baghdad
785 – Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova
789 – Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.
800 – Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia
807 – Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses &
of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem
809 – Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy
813 – Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country
831 – Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy
837 – 901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France
869 – 883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq
909 – Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia
928 – 969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969)
937 – The Church of the Resurrection (aka Church of Holy Sepulcher) is burned down by Muslims;
more churches in Jerusalem are attacked
960 – Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam
969 – Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo
973 – Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids
1003 – First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed
1009 – Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937)
1012 – Beginning of al—Hakim’s oppressive decrees against xxxs and Christians
1050 – Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun)
are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.
1071 – Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia
1071 – Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine
1073 – Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)
1075 – Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia
1076 – Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana
1086 – Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca
1090 – 1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands

START OF WESTERN CRUSADES
Only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions is when Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.
1094 – Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help
against Seljuk (Muslim Turks) invasions of his territory
1095 – Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

WHY ISLAMIC CONQUESTS?
Islamic scholarship divides the world in two:
1) The House of Islam (dar al-Islam): Nations submitted to Islamic rule.
2) The House of War (dar al-harb): Nations that have not submitted to Islam but must be submitted according to Islamic doctrine. Thus, Muslims (dar al-Islam) believe they must make war upon non-Muslims (dar al-harb) until all nations submit to the will of Allah and accept Sharia law.

Islam’s message: Submit or Be Conquered.

[UrMistake]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

There is a Turkish TV show that depicts the state of the world by 2023 showing how Israel will continue to dominate the region and the world using Islam and terrorism as a tool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRDFWo9NiCY

Well Armenia is quit biger but with out Artsax and Javack? Come on if we made it to Van and Black sea we surely will liberate those 2

[KanadaHye]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

There is a Turkish TV show that depicts the state of the world by 2023 showing how Israel will continue to dominate the region and the world using Islam and terrorism as a tool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRDFWo9NiCY

[Eddo211]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

hrai: You are right, I have heard Muslims discuss the same problems you brought up and it really is hopeless......the good Muslims are not behind the wheels.

Obama's view:

If a temple okay at ground zero, why not mosque: Obama
September 11th, 2010

The US President, Mr Barack Obama, on Friday again backed controversial plans to build an Islamic centre near the site of 9/11 attacks in New York reminding critics that the US was at war against terrorism not Islam.

"All men and women are created equal, they have certain inalienable rights, and one of those is to practice their religion freely," he said at a White House press conference.

"You can build a church on a site, you can build a synagogue on a site, if you could build a Hindu temple on a site, you should be able to build a mosque."

Mr Obama's comments came amidst a controversy about a Florida pastor's plans to burn the Quran on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks unless the proposed Islamic centre was moved away from ground zero in exchange for the burning being called off.

Mr Obama said he recognised the sensitivity in the area because of the 9/11 attacks and acknowledges that family members are continuing to experience pain and anguish over their losses.

However, he urged people to remember who their real enemies are. "We are not at war against Islam. We are at war against terrorist organizations that have distorted Islam or falsely used the banner of Islam," Mr Obama said.

"If we're going to deal with the problems ... (of) reducing the terrorist threat, we need all the allies we can get."

Mr Obama pressed that in fact, the anti-Islam sentiment and a war between the West and Islam is exactly what terrorist organisations are hoping for.

"Al Qaeda, that's what they've been banking on," Obama said. "The overwhelming majority of Muslims are peace-loving - are interested in the same things that you and I are interested in."

Mr Obama stressed it is important that Americans do not believe the entire religion of Islam is offensive.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/inter...sque-obama-934

[gegev]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Why burning bible doesn’t cause any violent reaction, but the Koran does.

Why Muslims are that intolerant compared with all other religions?

Why only they have the right to be intolerant?

Who gave the exclusive right to Islam?

Can you name any other terror spreading religion that does the same?

Doesn’t it come from the fact that most of Islam proponents, as opposed to other religions, are illiterate/ignorant people?

Doesn’t the "moderate"/"Modern" Islam threaten people who want to burn Koran?

And doesn’t that ignorance/brutality come from the core of the religion?

Predominantly Christian EU countries currently are on right direction, now they put a ban on the women Islamic clothing, which is one of the vital visible/distinguishing attributes of their religion. And the overall ban is inevitable; although EU countries are afraid of Muslims, but they can’t ovoid it; if they don’t want to lose completely their identity.

EU politicians are not talking much, but doing big steps on eradicating "radical" Islam. And qualifying whether they are radical or moderate is under their jurisdiction. But they do know that there is no big difference between them!!!!!!

[hrai]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Most Americans are very mad about this Koran burning. There has been talk of rescuing the book from these un-American bastards who will cause more death and violence in ME by this act against their own soldiers and minority Christians who live in those lands (yes, Armenians too). General Patraeus has said that this act must not be done and it will lead to American deaths in ME. They don’t seem to understand that burning the Koran is not the same reaction as burning the Bible by Muslims. You can burn all the Bibles you want and no one will be that angry compared to say Muslims who see their book burned by Christians. I don’t consider these people Americans but they are people who want to create more hate on Muslims in USA.

Anonymouse, did you know that the property in NY that the Muslims are planning to build a Mosque on was purchased from J.ews for 3 times the original price?
One might say that if the Juice has no problem with it why do American Christians have a problem..........but I say this will work to the advantage of the Juice if hatred against Muslims is increased in US and this is why they sold it to them knowing this will happen. Of course I am speculating but we never know.

Right now Israel knows that US will not attack Iran nuclear facilities and they know they themselves will never succeed doing it alone and if they try then Iran will teach them a lesson they will never forget.

Eddo,
If most Americans are mad about this red-neck white-collar and his plans to burn a book sacred to some, then they're right. I think the world is stunned by this guy and perhaps stunned by the reaction around the globe.
Already churches have been attacked in Iraq which really gives cause for concern.
One point I would make though is how many korans have been burnt in the suicide bombings of mosques carried out by muslims on fellow muslims?
If there are indeed moderate muslims in the majority they will always be led by the militant and sizeable minority. To move forward as a religion professing love & peace, islam needs a central administration and theological council. Currently individual imams set up their mosques and schools when and where they wish and teach their version of the koran.
Actually quite similar to the mess of minority fundamentalist and reactionary churches which apparently thrive in the US's bible belt.

[Eddo211]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed185.html

Most Americans are very mad about this Koran burning. There has been talk of rescuing the book from these un-American bastards who will cause more death and violence in ME by this act against their own soldiers and minority Christians who live in those lands (yes, Armenians too). General Patraeus has said that this act must not be done and it will lead to American deaths in ME. They don’t seem to understand that burning the Koran is not the same reaction as burning the Bible by Muslims. You can burn all the Bibles you want and no one will be that angry compared to say Muslims who see their book burned by Christians. I don’t consider these people Americans but they are people who want to create more hate on Muslims in USA.

Anonymouse, did you know that the property in NY that the Muslims are planning to build a Mosque on was purchased from J.ews for 3 times the original price?
One might say that if the Juice has no problem with it why do American Christians have a problem..........but I say this will work to the advantage of the Juice if hatred against Muslims is increased in US and this is why they sold it to them knowing this will happen. Of course I am speculating but we never know.

Right now Israel knows that US will not attack Iran nuclear facilities and they know they themselves will never succeed doing it alone and if they try then Iran will teach them a lesson they will never forget.

[retro]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Hrai

The Gulf Arabs are hypocrites, who go to places like Morocco to buy wifes and screw around. Who think that they are better than every one else and that money can buy them anything. The reality is that the Palestinians don't have a leg to stand upon and other than offering moral support, Armenians are in no position to aid the Palestinians, at least directly.

The key for Armenia is to fold in on it's self, unmonopolize parts of it's economy and strengthen it's judiciary. Armenia lacks the the support industry for manufacturing. However it could certainly do well in service or research based fields. The Armenia state should also really lobby the EU for agricultural development grants and offer European agricultural producers tax incentives and cheap land leases etc.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Pat Buchanan Is Wrong About Islam
by Fred Reed

Much hoorah, there is, over the mosque that may or may not be built in New York. I don’t give a tinker’s damn (whatever precisely that may be; I presume that tinkers’ oaths were thought more efficacious than others) whether they build it or not. The matter does however put to rest for me any hope of rationality in human affairs. This, I grant, could be accomplished with a very small bed.

At this writing, the government’s war for oil and AIPAC has more or less solidly metamorphosed, among the rubes at least, into a war against Islam. Men of thunder and portent peddle the notion like starving encyclopedia salesmen. No less a political howitzer than Pat Buchanan says that the mosque should not be built, because of the religious motivation of the Saudis who attacked the towers. His view has been eagerly received by the populace. Now it seems that yahoos at some fourth-grade church in Florida plan to burn a Koran to commemorate 9/11.

Splendid, this. We are telling 1.3 billion Moslems that America is not fighting Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or Terror. No. It is Islam itself we hate. How very wise. This will make it so much easier to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those security forces that GIs are supposed to be training – the ones with the AKs – they will know that their trainers are their enemies. Curiously, this is just what bin Laden tells them.

Glands again trump minds, if any. Consider that ten minutes before the first tower got hit in New York, the thought had occurred to practically no one in America that Islam constituted a mortal threat to all that we hold holy, chiefly chain restaurants and iPods. But Islam afterwards offered to fill this void that the Russians had wimped out on. For a brief period after the implosion of the Soviet Union, Americans had no threat to worry about. They found it deeply puzzling. Weren’t we supposed to be afraid of something? It didn’t feel right.

Then came New York, and suddenly we saw it: The Clash of Civilizations. Islam was out to get us. Why hadn’t we noticed? A roaring hatred for Moslems sprang up from people who had never met a Moslem, who had a garden slug’s grasp of history. A deep satisfaction came over the land. We had been made whole again.

Battling Mohammedans quickly became an industry. The government at first tried to peddle Terrorism as the enemy, not Islam, but it didn’t stick. Something more robustly flackable was wanted.

I find Buchanan, of the American Conservative, proclaiming that Islam is a Culture of Jihad, and most militant. No doubt. Very. Would it be poltroonish of me to note that just now Christian armies are busily annexing and wrecking Afghanistan and Iraq, having recently bombed Somalia? That they use robotic aircraft to murder Yemenis, that they hunt down Moslems in the Philippines (where after 1898 Americans engaged in atrocities that would win the admiration of the Japanese), encourage Israel to ruin Lebanon and to run a concentration camp for Moslems in Gaza, enthusiastically murder Pakistanis from the sky, and threaten Syria and Iran?

Those Moslems. Militant, they are. The bastards.

The Islamic countries listed above are only those currently attacked by America. Let us look at the matter in another way. I append here a list of all Christian countries conquered by militant Moslems since 1529:

.........

Next, a partial list of Moslem countries conquered by Christians: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq (the first time), Iraq (again), Iran, Pakistan, East Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Dubai….

This list does not include such minor Christian conquests as North, South, and Central America, India, China, Southeast Asia, black Africa, and such. Unconscionable, Moslem aggressiveness is.

Buchanan regards the events of 9/11 as no end grievous. So do I. Yet perhaps people who live in glass pots and kettles shouldn’t call names. The UN’s figures give 600,000 Iraqi children dead because of the American embargo, which didn’t allow, for example, chlorine to sterilize water. This is equivalent to 6.4 million dead children in the United States. Hmmm: If Moslems had killed this trifling number of our sprats, might we wax grumpish?

Yes, I know, the UN is a commie Marxist socialist anti-American conspiracy, and not as trustworthy as the American propaganda apparatus. All right. Let’s assume that the UN lied by a factor of ten, and thus only 60,000 Iraqi children died thanks to us. Thus, if 3,000 Americans died in New York, we owe the Moslems some 57,000. No?

If I may sally briefly into unloved seriousness: What puzzles me, as one who has lived extensively abroad, is how little Americans are able to see things through the eyes of others, how little empathy they have (this latter defect being characteristic of both psychopaths and narcissists).

Consider a headline from Antiwar.com of a sort appearing almost daily: “US Drone Strike Destroys House Full of Children in Pakistan.”

Apparently no one in the Great Rubber Room north of Mexico has an inkling why this might arouse hatred in Pakistanis. Can you imagine the fury that would ensue if a Moslem blew up a house full of American kids in, say, Queens? But when we kill their kids, no one cares. “Yeah, well. Tough. Giv’em a few dollars.” Buncha dirty raghead larvae. No better than xxxxroaches, right?

Now, we’re going to have a pop quiz. Take out a sheet of paper. Question: Can you think of any reason why Moslems might be unhappy with America?

Right! They hate our freedoms.

In which case they daily have less to hate us for.

It doesn’t pay to underestimate an enemy, I hear. All right: Moslems are so very dangerous not just because of their many extremist groups – Salamists, Al Sushis, the Falafel, and the Wasabi for example – but because of their immense industrial strength, which doesn’t exist. With the possible exception of Turkey, not one Islamic nation is in the First World. I picture bearded, turbaned warriors wading ashore on aquatic camels, causing no end of panic in Atlantic City. I mean, what do camels eat?

The horror.

Herewith a searing insight for the ever-puzzled State Department: Actions have consequences. If you support Batista, you will engender Fidel. If you support the Shah, you will get Khomeini. If you attack Moslems, you will get bin Laden. It might be better to stay home and read a book.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed185.html