Muslims occupy Europe

[Armanen]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Why do you think the victims were all on that island - at a youth camp run by a political party, an entity whose ancestry comes from 1930s Hitler Youth camps? They were there because being there would be advantageous to their future success in adult life, especially for a career in politics. The prime minister of Norway himself admitted as much when he said that he had spent several seasons on that island as a teenager.

A number of political parties in various countries have youth wings. How is the Norwegian case different?

The responses to the attack have everything to do with lessons also learnt back in the 1930s: the burning of the Reichstag.

That's why I think with time we will get some clues into who or what gained from the attack, and maybe then we'll be able to discern how accurate the official version is. Keep in mind that it took the police about 70 or more minutes to respond, most SWAT teams respond in 15 mins.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

A number of political parties in various countries have youth wings. How is the Norwegian case different?

There is a big difference between the youth wings of political parties and summer camps for young people run by political parties. There are no such things in Britain, and they seem to be unusual even for America with its history of summer camps (though an internet search does find mention of Republican youth camps). They are extremely common in oppressive or ideology-based regimes, or regimes with totalitarian or extreme nationalist or religious inclinations, or in regimes that are characterised by having an established rulling elite (this last would apply to Norway). So they are very common in Russia, and in Turkey. The political party ones started in the 1920s and 1930s, Hitler Youth camps being typical examples: there was no need to indoctrinate the young and groom them to be the successors to the current ruling generation before the era of mass voting and universal sufferage.

Here is a source that describes the situation in Norway: "the Labour Party historically is run by a tight network of politicians linked by family relations, marriage and friendships who also have a tendency to take on key roles not only in government but in business and Norway's powerful bureaucracy as well. Many tend to meet in their youth on the island midway between Oslo and Hinefoss." http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/...er-camp-opens/

As for the extremist actions and beliefs held by some of those who are marginalised in Norway by not being part of that tight network, a dramatic example is the Odin-worshiping neo-pagan movements that emerged in Norway in the 1980s and 1990s. Some extremists amongst the believers actually went around burning down churches, including the famous 12th C Fantoft Stave Church. In a very real sense, Varg Vikernes (who burned down that church) was no different from Anders Behring Breivik. The elites in Norway responded by digging up some forgotten nonsense dreamed up by pseudo-historian Thor Heyerdahl - the idea that Odin was not a God (real or imaginary) but just some mistranslation of "Udi". This led to the destruction of many Armenian churches in Azerbaijan, and the removal of Armenian inscriptions from many others as they were "converted" into "Udi" churches (in restorations paid for by Norway to produce fake Udi history). I think it was either the wife of Norway's then prime minister, or the brother of the wife (or some close family relationship like that) who was put in charge of propagating the "Odin/Udi" story and organising the campaign, along with the Norwegian Church and certain TV presenters in Norway.

[jgk3]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

There is a big difference between the youth wings of political parties and summer camps for young people run by political parties. There are no such things in Britain, and they seem to be unusual even for America with its history of summer camps (though an internet search does find mention of Republican youth camps). They are extremely common in oppressive or ideology-based regimes, or regimes with totalitarian or extreme nationalist or religious inclinations, or in regimes that are characterised by having an established rulling elite (this last would apply to Norway). So they are very common in Russia, and in Turkey. The political party ones started in the 1920s and 1930s, Hitler Youth camps being typical examples: there was no need to indoctrinate the young and groom them to be the successors to the current ruling generation before the era of mass voting and universal sufferage.

Here is a source that describes the situation in Norway: "the Labour Party historically is run by a tight network of politicians linked by family relations, marriage and friendships who also have a tendency to take on key roles not only in government but in business and Norway's powerful bureaucracy as well. Many tend to meet in their youth on the island midway between Oslo and Hinefoss." http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/...er-camp-opens/

As for the extremist actions and beliefs held by some of those who are marginalised in Norway by not being part of that tight network, a dramatic example is the Odin-worshiping neo-pagan movements that emerged in Norway in the 1980s and 1990s. Some extremists amongst the believers actually went around burning down churches, including the famous 12th C Fantoft Stave Church. In a very real sense, Varg Vikernes (who burned down that church) was no different from Anders Behring Breivik. The elites in Norway responded by digging up some forgotten nonsense dreamed up by pseudo-historian Thor Heyerdahl - the idea that Odin was not a God (real or imaginary) but just some mistranslation of "Udi". This led to the destruction of many Armenian churches in Azerbaijan, and the removal of Armenian inscriptions from many others as they were "converted" into "Udi" churches (in restorations paid for by Norway to produce fake Udi history). I think it was either the wife of Norway's then prime minister, or the brother of the wife (or some close family relationship like that) who was put in charge of propagating the "Odin/Udi" story and organising the campaign, along with the Norwegian Church and certain TV presenters in Norway.

never heard of that one before (Norway's involvement in Azeris destruction of Armenian sites), could you provide some sources for us to read? Thanks.

[Zartonq]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

There is a big difference between the youth wings of political parties and summer camps for young people run by political parties. There are no such things in Britain, and they seem to be unusual even for America with its history of summer camps (though an internet search does find mention of Republican youth camps). They are extremely common in oppressive or ideology-based regimes, or regimes with totalitarian or extreme nationalist or religious inclinations, or in regimes that are characterised by having an established rulling elite (this last would apply to Norway). So they are very common in Russia, and in Turkey. The political party ones started in the 1920s and 1930s, Hitler Youth camps being typical examples: there was no need to indoctrinate the young and groom them to be the successors to the current ruling generation before the era of mass voting and universal sufferage.

Here is a source that describes the situation in Norway: "the Labour Party historically is run by a tight network of politicians linked by family relations, marriage and friendships who also have a tendency to take on key roles not only in government but in business and Norway's powerful bureaucracy as well. Many tend to meet in their youth on the island midway between Oslo and Hinefoss." http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/...er-camp-opens/

As for the extremist actions and beliefs held by some of those who are marginalised in Norway by not being part of that tight network, a dramatic example is the Odin-worshiping neo-pagan movements that emerged in Norway in the 1980s and 1990s. Some extremists amongst the believers actually went around burning down churches, including the famous 12th C Fantoft Stave Church. In a very real sense, Varg Vikernes (who burned down that church) was no different from Anders Behring Breivik. The elites in Norway responded by digging up some forgotten nonsense dreamed up by pseudo-historian Thor Heyerdahl - the idea that Odin was not a God (real or imaginary) but just some mistranslation of "Udi". This led to the destruction of many Armenian churches in Azerbaijan, and the removal of Armenian inscriptions from many others as they were "converted" into "Udi" churches (in restorations paid for by Norway to produce fake Udi history). I think it was either the wife of Norway's then prime minister, or the brother of the wife (or some close family relationship like that) who was put in charge of propagating the "Odin/Udi" story and organising the campaign, along with the Norwegian Church and certain TV presenters in Norway.

I was unaware of the official backing for Heyerdahl's absurd fetish, though I'm fairly confident that our noble neighbors would have proceeded to destroy remnants of civilized culture without Norwegian intervention.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

never heard of that one before (Norway's involvement in Azeris destruction of Armenian sites), could you provide some sources for us to read? Thanks.

I looked into this 5 or 6 years ago, but most of the links are now dead.

This one is still up. It is about the restoration of a church in Kish, paid for by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and "Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise, an organization with ties to the Lutheran Church in Norway" (which I think is Normisjon - see http://www.normisjon.no/index.php?ka...2&art_id=38227). The article also mentions the Heyerdahl connection and his Udi theory. The "archaeologist" Storfjell worked with Heyerdahl on that theory, and he runs the Heyerdahl foundation. Normisjon also paid for the restoration of a 19th C Armenian church in which all the Armenian inscriptions were removed, and Armenian gravestones destroyed so that Azerbaijan could say it was an Udi/Caucasian Albanian church. The Normisjon webpage that detailed the work appears to be gone. I think a check on some of the other Norwegian names listed in the Kish article will lead to connections inside the rulling elites in Norway.

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/84_folder/84_articles/84_kish.html

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

I looked into this 5 or 6 years ago, but most of the links are now dead.

This one is still up. It is about the restoration of a church in Kish, paid for by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and "Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise, an organization with ties to the Lutheran Church in Norway" (which I think is Normisjon - see http://www.normisjon.no/index.php?ka...2&art_id=38227). The article also mentions the Heyerdahl connection and his Udi theory. The "archaeologist" Storfjell worked with Heyerdahl on that theory, and he runs the Heyerdahl foundation. Normisjon also paid for the restoration of a 19th C Armenian church in which all the Armenian inscriptions were removed, and Armenian gravestones destroyed so that Azerbaijan could say it was an Udi/Caucasian Albanian church. The Normisjon webpage that detailed the work appears to be gone. I think a check on some of the other Norwegian names listed in the Kish article will lead to connections inside the rulling elites in Norway.

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories...s/84_kish.html

I looked into this 5 or 6 years ago, but most of the links are now dead.

This one is still up. It is about the restoration of a church in Kish, paid for by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and "Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise, an organization with ties to the Lutheran Church in Norway" (which I think is Normisjon - see http://www.normisjon.no/index.php?ka...2&art_id=38227). The article also mentions the Heyerdahl connection and his Udi theory. The "archaeologist" Storfjell worked with Heyerdahl on that theory, and he runs the Heyerdahl foundation. Normisjon also paid for the restoration of a 19th C Armenian church in which all the Armenian inscriptions were removed, and Armenian gravestones destroyed so that Azerbaijan could say it was an Udi/Caucasian Albanian church. The Normisjon webpage that detailed the work appears to be gone. I think a check on some of the other Norwegian names listed in the Kish article will lead to connections inside the rulling elites in Norway.

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories...s/84_kish.html

Found some of my notes:

Thor Heyerdahl
In the 1990s Thor Heyerdahl presented a theory of the Black Sea origins of parts of the Scandinavian race. Heyerdahl accepted certain Norse legends as literal truth, in particular stories about Odin, and set about identifying persons and locations mentioned in those legends with real places. Based on similarities of names in Norse mythology and names in the Black Sea-region (e.g. Aesir and Azer / Azov, Odin and Udi) Heyerdahl claimed that the Udi ethnic minority in Azerbaijan was the descendants of the ancestors of the Scandinavians. He travelled to Azerbaijan on a number of occasions in the final two decades of his life and visited the Kish church. Heyerdahl’s theory was rejected by all serious historians, archaeologists, and linguists but was accepted as fact within a section of Norway’s state-run church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway.

Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway
The Church of Norway is established as the state church of Norway in the Constitution of Norway, and its constitutional head is the reigning monarch of Norway, who is obliged to profess himself/herself to the Lutheran faith. It is subject to legislation and budgeting passed by the Norwegian parliament, Stortinget, and its central administrative functions is carried out by the Royal Ministry of Culture and Church Affairs.

Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise
is part of Normisyon, a legally independent organization that exists within the Lutheran Church of Norway. Viator Mikrokredit Azerbaijan, is formally owned by Viator S.A., a private company based in Norway and controlled by Normisyon (Lutheran Church of Norway).

Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise (NHE), part of Normisyon, an organisation within the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway, was established in 1994, in the aftermath of the Nagorno-Karabagh conflict, to give aid to internally displaced persons within Azerbaijan. Another branch of Normisyon, Viator Mikrokredit Azerbaijan, runs a bank in the town of Shaki, 5km south of Kish.

Official support for the Odin Theory by the Lutheran Church of Norway
"The Land We Came From" - an album of folk songs from Azerbaijan. Norwegian Choir SKRUK and Azeri musicians and singers.
Bjorn Wegge, the Director of Information for Norwegian Humanitarian Enterprise, initiated a 1997 album involving a Norwegian choir and Azeri musicians and singers. It featured a photograph of the Kish’s St. Yeghishe church on its cover. The belief in Heyerdahl’s theory is explicitly stated in the choice of the album’s title: “The Land We Came From”, with the choir’s leader stating that Azerbaijan was “a culture that may be our long-forgotten homeland."
Quote: The CD cover features a photo of one of most ancient churches in Kish, a village near Shaki in the northwest region of Azerbaijan. Oral tradition says that this church was built in the year 78 AD by Yelisey, a disciple of Jesus' brother. If true, this would make the Christian church in Kish one of the oldest in the world. Per Oddvar Hildre, SKRUK's director commented “The experience also provided us with an invaluable glimpse of a culture that may be our long-forgotten homeland."

In the late 1990s NHE initiated and organised restoration projects of a disused 19th-century Armenian church in the Udi-populated village of Nij, and the St. Yeghishe church in Kish. Norway’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs funded both projects. Allegations of complicity with the Azerbaijan government in cultural cleansing and the re-writing of history have dogged both projects.

The Kish church project was also initiated by Bjorn Wegge, Storgfjell describes him as “the father of the project”. The restoration of the Kish church was preceded by an archaeological excavation that was also run by NHE and paid for by Norway. The chief archaeologist was the Norwegian J. Bjørnar Storfjell. As a result of a visit to the site by Heyerdahl during the excavation, in 2001 Storfjell was appointed by Heyerdahl to be the chief archaeologist of a YUKOS-sponsored archaeological excavation to the Sea of Azov to find evidence to back up Heyerdahl’s Odin theory.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

Eyvind Skeie

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/84_folder/84_articles/84_kish.html

"How did the Norwegians even hear about the church? Some of the credit goes to Eyvind Skeie, a well-known Norwegian author and scriptwriter who has been involved in various cultural projects involving Norway and Azerbaijan. Skeie made a video of the church in Kish, which appeared on the TV news in Norway in December 1998 as a short, interesting religious feature for the first day of Christmas. "

Eyvind Skeie is married to Gerd Rasmussen. She is the sister of Bjørg Rasmussen, the wife of Kjell Magne Bondevik. Bondevik is a Lutheran minister, and he served as Prime Minister of Norway from 1997 to 2000, and from 2001 to 2005.

[Imogen123]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

I sense Islamophobia here.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

I sense Islamophobia here.

I sense spam.

My senses are always correct.

[hrai]

Re: Muslims occupy Europe

I sense Islamophobia here.

Hopefully.