Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

[lipton]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Cool, I see you are having great time trying to convince each other like "hey don't worry Turks won't roll us on their fingers". Fail. I can smell poop in your pants.

[Mukuch]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Cool, I see you are having great time trying to convince each other like "hey don't worry Turks won't roll us on their fingers". Fail. I can smell poop in your pants.

LOL
what a figure...))))

[Haykakan]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

TURKEY SIGNS MILITARY PACT WITH AZERBAIJAN

HETQ
13:56, October 14, 2011

Turkey's Defense Minister Ismet Yilmaz, now in Baku on an official
visit, stated yesterday that Turkey is ready to extend support to
the Azerbaijani armed forces.

Yilmaz told reporters that a bilateral strategic cooperation agreement
had been signed between Ankara and Baku.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am from Turkey. I don't want my country to become any sort of 'leader' in the Middle East. The AKP are a bunch of neo-Ottomanist, Islamist (or 'semi-Islamist', if that's more suitable) imperialists.

Turkey should concentrate on having good relations with its neighbors, including Armena. I am so annoyed that the land border is closed. Turkey should open the border and stop causing so much economic difficulty to many Armenians.

As for EU, I think Turkey won't be able to join the EU because there is the Cyprus factor. If there is no development in the Cyprus issue, the EU-accession talks won't go ahead much. Sad but true.

Cem

[Joseph]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am from Turkey. I don't want my country to become any sort of 'leader' in the Middle East. The AKP are a bunch of neo-Ottomanist, Islamist (or 'semi-Islamist', if that's more suitable) imperialists.

Turkey should concentrate on having good relations with its neighbors, including Armena. I am so annoyed that the land border is closed. Turkey should open the border and stop causing so much economic difficulty to many Armenians.

As for EU, I think Turkey won't be able to join the EU because there is the Cyprus factor. If there is no development in the Cyprus issue, the EU-accession talks won't go ahead much. Sad but true.

Cem

Cem,

Agree with most of your sentiments.

But as bad as the AKP are, it seems the CHP and the MHP (especially the MHP who are essentially akin the a Turkish Nazi party,) are potentially worse- the choice seems to be either pan-Islam (AKP) or pan-Turk (CHP, MHP). As stupid as the AKP is, they have done far more to promote equal rights of minorities since 2002 than all previous regimes combined. I certainly do not like/trust them but they appear to be the lesser of all evils in my opinion with regards to political parties/movements in Ankara.

I agree that keeping the border closed is shortsighted as much more can be accomplished with normal communication and trade. It is not Armenia with the preconditions but Turkey and Turkey keeps trying to change the format, goalposts, posturing, adding conditions, bullying, etc. Normal relations would build trust and magnanimity and benefit Turkey's "ethnic brethren", the Azeris. Thus far all attempts at normalcy have failed due to the aforementioned.

Furthermore, I'll never understand why Turkey refuses diplomatic relations with Armenia when even India and Pakistan have exchanged ambassadors/talk directly, how can anything be accomplished by behind the scenes diplomacy, small-scale cultural exchanges, communicating through third parties? My opinion isthat there really isn't a desire or political will for Turkey to help remedy the situation.

[Mos]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am from Turkey. I don't want my country to become any sort of 'leader' in the Middle East. The AKP are a bunch of neo-Ottomanist, Islamist (or 'semi-Islamist', if that's more suitable) imperialists.

Turkey should concentrate on having good relations with its neighbors, including Armena. I am so annoyed that the land border is closed. Turkey should open the border and stop causing so much economic difficulty to many Armenians.

As for EU, I think Turkey won't be able to join the EU because there is the Cyprus factor. If there is no development in the Cyprus issue, the EU-accession talks won't go ahead much. Sad but true.

Cem

Well actually Turkey's blockade/closure of border is an illegal act in accordance with international law. On top of that, their pre-conditions on open the border makes it impossible for any thing to be done. Plus in establish official ties with Turkey we would accept that Western Armenia is part of Turkey, when in fact there are repirations to be made in that regard, as the native Armenian populace of Western Armenia was illegally cleansed from their lands.

[hrai]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Well actually Turkey's blockade/closure of border is an illegal act in accordance with international law. On top of that, their pre-conditions on open the border makes it impossible for any thing to be done. Plus in establish official ties with Turkey we would accept that Western Armenia is part of Turkey, when in fact there are repirations to be made in that regard, as the native Armenian populace of Western Armenia was illegally cleansed from their lands.

Any agreement made would set the present border, surely that can't be in Armenia's interests?
If this border is opened Armenia would be flooded by turcs and the countries economy would go down the pan, have a look at Georgia.
Opening the border would be like putting a cat-flap on your kitchen door when you lived in the lion's den.

[Eddo211]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am curious as to why the Turkish government is against openning the border without any preconditions....you would think it would be to there advantage, even though it would be Armenian government that would get the most economic advantage at first, but geopolitically it would be to Turkey's advantage, would it not?

I can think of only a few reasons why they would choose not to but those are wild theories.

[Mos]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Any agreement made would set the present border, surely that can't be in Armenia's interests?
If this border is opened Armenia would be flooded by turcs and the countries economy would go down the pan, have a look at Georgia.
Opening the border would be like putting a cat-flap on your kitchen door when you lived in the lion's den.

Yeah I don't want Turks flooding Armenian either. I much rather Russian/Iranian businesses dominate Armenia rather than Turkish. If only Georgia mended relations with Russia, everything would be so much easier. If we had border with Russia, that would be heaven.

I am curious as to why the Turkish government is against openning the border without any preconditions....you would think it would be to there advantage, even though it would be Armenian government that would get the most economic advantage at first, but geopolitically it would be to Turkey's advantage, would it not?

I can think of only a few reasons why they would choose not to but those are wild theories.

Because they don't want to anger nationalistic voices inside Turkey by angering Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan's main leverage on Armenia is the Turkish blockade. And I'm sure Azerbaijan gives something in return for Turky's policy in this matter.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Cem,

Agree with most of your sentiments.

But as bad as the AKP are, it seems the CHP and the MHP (especially the MHP who are essentially akin the a Turkish Nazi party,) are potentially worse- the choice seems to be either pan-Islam (AKP) or pan-Turk (CHP, MHP). As stupid as the AKP is, they have done far more to promote equal rights of minorities since 2002 than all previous regimes combined. I certainly do not like/trust them but they appear to be the lesser of all evils in my opinion with regards to political parties/movements in Ankara.

I agree that keeping the border closed is shortsighted as much more can be accomplished with normal communication and trade. It is not Armenia with the preconditions but Turkey and Turkey keeps trying to change the format, goalposts, posturing, adding conditions, bullying, etc. Normal relations would build trust and magnanimity and benefit Turkey's "ethnic brethren", the Azeris. Thus far all attempts at normalcy have failed due to the aforementioned.

Furthermore, I'll never understand why Turkey refuses diplomatic relations with Armenia when even India and Pakistan have exchanged ambassadors/talk directly, how can anything be accomplished by behind the scenes diplomacy, small-scale cultural exchanges, communicating through third parties? My opinion isthat there really isn't a desire or political will for Turkey to help remedy the situation.

I agree fully with your comments.