Pentagon Attack on 911

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

When all else fails, resort to "kiss" ... keep it simple stupid.

Sure the US government could have devised such a cunning feat and the greatest cover up ever since their fake moon landing ... But in the end of end, what's really more plausible:

1. A bunch of suicidal maniacs taking over some planes and smashing them into two of the largest buildings in the world.

2. A really really complicated and cleverly devised and planned attempt to change the world politics for ever followed by a HUGE cover up.


This whole world trade center conspriacy theory market is nothing more than the same old crap we have been seeing for ever. But then again, there are still a LOT of people who still believe there is a "God" that created them and the world in 7 days LITERALLY so nothing really surprises me anymore about how gullible the masses can be when faced with their own overactive imaginations.

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Here's the NIST faq concerning the various problematic points.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

The don't mension molten metal under building 7 or sulphur under all buildings.
Did anyone read the full NIST report?

Karo,

I just read the thing you linked. They don't even mention WTC 7. Also the assertions made in that link is precisely what the dude from Underwriters Laboratory attacked and asked them to come up with an explanation that makes sense.

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

In passing Bill M. mentioned that 35% of Americans now believe that 9-11 was an inside job

Thats an encouraging statistic. I've monitored some internation "mainstream" forums where a lot of times these discussions become very heated. The fact that we're not really seeing this here tells me that armos are smarter than the average bear.

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Thats an encouraging statistic. I've monitored some internation "mainstream" forums where a lot of times these discussions become very heated. The fact that we're not really seeing this here tells me that armos are smarter than the average bear.

Yeah I noticed this as well ....

Given the swell history of this country I'm shocked that for some ppl this is such a HUGE stretch.

After what happened in New Orleans I'm also shocked that ppl continue to think that our government actually cares about the ppl they are supposed to represent. I wonder how many ppl in Congress are in or close enough to the top 10% financially speaking. Yet they represent the common person?!? Minimum wage wasn't raised for like 9 years in which time Congress voted to increase their salary somewhere in the area of 7 times. It obvious who they care about ... themselves, and except for a few examples that break the mold, the rest of the financially elite.

The link you posted for the physicist lecture we should all watch and pay attention to ... most ppl don't have the attention span, or an opened enough mind for something like this which is unfortunate.

[Armenian]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

OPERATION NORTHWOODS: US PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS TO CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR

For those military officers who were sitting on the fence, the Kennedy administration's botched Bay of Pigs invasion was the last straw. "The Bay of Pigs fiasco broke the dike," said one report at the time. "President Kennedy was pilloried by the super patriots as a 'no-win' chief . . . The Far Right became a fount of proposals born of frustration and put forward in the name of anti-Communism. . . Active-duty commanders played host to anti-Communist seminars on their bases and attended or addressed Right-wing meetings elsewhere."

Although no one in Congress could have known it at the time, Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge.

According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plan, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.

The idea may actually have originated with President Eisenhower in the last days of his administration. With the Cold War hotter than ever and the recent U-2 scandal fresh in the public's memory, the old general wanted to go out with a win. He wanted desperately to invade Cuba in the weeks leading up to Kennedy's inauguration; indeed, on January 3 he told Lemnitzer and other aides in his Cabinet Room that he would move against Castro before the inauguration if only the Cubans gave him a really good excuse. Then, with time growing short, Eisenhower floated an idea. If Castro failed to provide that excuse, perhaps, he said, the United States "could think of manufacturing something that would be generally acceptable." What he was suggesting was a pretext a bombing, an attack, an act of sabotage carried out secretly against the United States by the United States. Its purpose would be to justify the launching of a war. It was a dangerous suggestion by a desperate president.

Although no such war took place, the idea was not lost on General Lemnitzer But he and his colleagues were frustrated by Kennedy's failure to authorize their plan, and angry that Castro had not provided an excuse to invade.

The final straw may have come during a White House meeting on February 26, 1962. Concerned that General Lansdale's various covert action plans under Operation Mongoose were simply becoming more outrageous and going nowhere, Robert Kennedy told him to drop all anti-Castro efforts. Instead, Lansdale was ordered to concentrate for the next three months strictly on gathering intelligence about Cuba. It was a humiliating defeat for Lansdale, a man more accustomed to praise than to scorn.

As the Kennedy brothers appeared to suddenly "go soft" on Castro, Lemnitzer could see his opportunity to invade Cuba quickly slipping away. The attempts to provoke the Cuban public to revolt seemed dead and Castro, unfortunately, appeared to have no inclination to launch any attacks against Americans or their property Lemnitzer and the other Chiefs knew there was only one option left that would ensure their war. They would have to trick the American public and world opinion into hating Cuba so much that they would not only go along, but would insist that he and his generals launch their war against Castro. "World opinion, and the United Nations forum," said a secret JCS document, "should be favorably affected by developing the international image of the Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere."

Operation Northwoods called for a war in which many patriotic Americans and innocent Cubans would die senseless deaths, all to satisfy the egos of twisted generals back in Washington, safe in their taxpayer financed homes and limousines.

One idea seriously considered involved the launch of John Glenn, the first American to orbit the earth. On February 20,1962, Glenn was to lift off from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on his historic journey. The flight was to carry the banner of America's virtues of truth, freedom, and democracy into orbit high over the planet. But Lemnitzer and his Chiefs had a different idea. They proposed to Lansdale that, should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, "the objective is to provide irrevocable proof that . . . the fault lies with the Communists et al Cuba [sic.]"

This would be accomplished, Lemnitzer continued, "by manufacturing various pieces of evidence which would prove electronic interference on the part of the Cubans." Thus, as NASA prepared to send the first American into space, the Joint Chiefs of Staff were preparing to use John Glenn's possible death as a pretext to launch a war.

Glenn lifted into history without mishap, leaving Lemnitzer and the Chiefs to begin devising new plots which they suggested be carried out "within the time frame of the next few months."

Among the actions recommended was "a series of well coordinated incidents to take place in and around" the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. This included dressing "friendly" Cubans in Cuban military uniforms and then have them "start riots near the main gate of the base. Others would pretend to be saboteurs inside the base. Ammunition would be blown up, fires started, aircraft sabotaged, mortars fired at the base with damage to installations."

The suggested operations grew progressively more outrageous. Another called for an action similar to the infamous incident in February 1898 when an explosion aboard the battleship Maine in Havana harbor killed 266 U.S. sailors. Although the exact cause of the explosion remained undetermined, it sparked the Spanish-American War with Cuba. Incited by the deadly blast, more than one million men volunteered for duty. Lemnitzer and his generals came up with a similar plan. "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," they proposed; "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

There seemed no limit to their fanaticism: "We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," they wrote. "The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States.

We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). . . . We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized."

Bombings were proposed, false arrests, hijackings:

*"Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government."

*"Advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican [Republic] Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. 'Cuban' B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with 'Cuban' messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and 'Cuban' shipments of arms which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach. Use of MiG type aircraft by U.S. pilots could provide additional provocation."

*"Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft could appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the Government of Cuba."

Among the most elaborate schemes was to "create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight."

Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs worked out a complex deception:

An aircraft at Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CJA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone [a remotely controlled unmanned aircraft]. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida.

From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Elgin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency a "May Day" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MiG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft, which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO [International Civil Aviation Organization radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the U.S. what has happened to the aircraft instead of the U.S. trying to "sell" the incident.

Finally, there was a plan to "make it appear that Communist Cuban MiGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack." It was a particularly believable operation given the decade of shoot downs that had just taken place.

In the final sentence of his letter to Secretary McNamara recommending the operations, Lemnitzer made a grab for even more power asking that the Joint Chiefs be placed in charge of carrying out Operation Northwoods and the invasion. "It is recommended," he wrote, "that this responsibility for both oven and covert military operations be assigned to the Joint Chiefs of Staff."

At 2:30 on the afternoon of Tuesday, March 13, 1962, Lemnitzer went over last-minute details of Operation Northwoods with his covert action chief, Brigadier General William H. Craig, and signed the document. He then went to a "special meeting" in McNamara's office. An hour later he met with Kennedy's military representative, General Maxwell Taylor. What happened during those meetings is unknown. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer that there was virtually no possibility that the U.S. would ever use overt military force in Cuba.

Undeterred, Lemnitzer and the Chiefs persisted, virtually to the point of demanding that they be given authority to invade and take over Cuba. About a month after submitting Operation Northwoods, they met the "tank," as the JCS conference room was called, and agreed on the wording of a tough memorandum to McNamara. "The Joint Chiefs of Staff believe that the Cuban problem must be solved in the near future," they wrote. "Further, they see no prospect of early success in overthrowing the present communist regime either as a result of internal uprising or external political, economic or psychological pressures. Accordingly they believe that military intervention by the United States will be required to overthrow the present communist regime."

Lemnitzer was virtually rabid in his hatred of Communism in general and Castro in particular "The Joint Chiefs of Staff believe that the United States can undertake military intervention in Cuba without risk of general war" he continued. "They also believe that the intervention can be accomplished rapidly enough to minimize communist opportunities for solicitation of UN action." However; what Lemnitzer was suggesting was not freeing the Cuban people, who were largely in support of Castro, but imprisoning them in a U.S. military-controlled police state. "Forces would assure rapid essential military control of Cuba," he wrote. "Continued police action would be required."

By then McNamara had virtually no confidence in his military chief and was rejecting nearly every proposal the general sent to him. The rejections became so routine, said one of Lemnitzer's former staff officers, that the staffer told the general that the situation was putting the military in an "embarrassing rut." But Lemnitzer replied, "I am the senior military office--it's my job to state what I believe and it's his [McNamara's] job to approve or disapprove." "McNamara's arrogance was astonishing," said Lemnitzer's aide, who knew nothing of Operation Northwoods. "He gave General Lemnitzer very short shrift and treated him like a schoolboy. The general almost stood at attention when he came into the room. Everything was 'Yes, sir' and 'No, sir.'

Within months, Lemnitzer was denied a second term as JCS chairman and transferred to Europe as chief of NATO. Years later President Gerald Ford appointed Lemnitzer, a darling of the Republican right, to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. Lemnitzer's Cuba chief, Brigadier General Craig, was also transferred. Promoted to major general, he spent three years as chief of the Army Security Agency, NSA's military arm.

Because of the secrecy and illegality of Operation Northwoods, all details remained hidden for forty years. Lemnitzer may have thought that all copies of the relevant documents had been destroyed; he was not one to leave compromising material lying around. Following the Bay of Pigs debacle, for example, he ordered Brigadier General David W Gray, Craig's predecessor as chief of the Cuba project within the JCS, to destroy all his notes concerning Joint Chiefs actions and discussions during that period. Gray's meticulous notes were the only detailed official records of what happened within the JCS during that time. According to Gray, Lemnitzer feared a congressional investigation and therefore wanted any incriminating evidence destroyed.

Link: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

[karoaper]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Karo,

I just read the thing you linked. They don't even mention WTC 7. Also the assertions made in that link is precisely what the dude from Underwriters Laboratory attacked and asked them to come up with an explanation that makes sense.

I've yet to watch in detail the lectures these scientists give, but they're certainly established and learned folks without a hidden agenda that I can see. Also, if what they say about evidence being wisked away is true (and I don't suspect they have any reason to lie), then it does make you scratch your head. I certainly wouldn't put a thing of this magnitude or madness past this government (much less certain megalomaniacal agencies and groups within it).

Some concerns with the "alternative theory". I watched some of the lecture by Prof. jones. He didn't address the point made by NIST that it wasn't fire alone that weakened the steel trosses and beams, but that the initial damage from the airplane impact loosened the fireproofing. Also, according to NIST, the amount of time the buildings burned was enough for steel to reach air temperature. This is what I'd like to see, a lecture that goes point by point through the NIST report or the FEMA report and shows them to be scientifically inaccurate. When you're not a physics specialist, it's hard to both believe or disbelieve certain assertions these guys make.

About the free fall nature of the colapse. Someone needs to create a model and have it colapse according to implosion(demolision) and due to stuctural failure. NIST reported that the buildings colapsed in a free fall manner because the top was so heavy that the momentum it generated wasn't slowed down sufficiently by the lower parts. But the question is (that could be answered by models) could the colapse profile be identical (or close to) for both implosion and structural failure.

[Sip]

Re: 9-11 Truth ...

Bin Laden in tape prepares 9/11 attackers By Diala Saadeh
1 hour, 27 minutes ago

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda marked the fifth anniversary of September 11 by posting video footage of Osama bin Laden exhorting the attackers to be patient in their preparations and to steel themselves for "martyrdom."

The 92-minute tape appeared on the eve of the anniversary of attacks, as President Bush visited the site of the World Trade Center twin towers, demolished in 2001 by the impact of two passenger airliners.

One of the men who flew the second aircraft into the World Trade Center, Hamza al-Ghamdi, appeared in a taped will, declaring: "O, Allah water the tree of jihad (holy war) with our blood. O, Allah accept us as martyrs.

"I say to America if it wants its armies and people to be safe then, it must withdraw all its forces from Muslim land ... or else it should prepare coffins and big graves," added Ghamdi, who posed next to a miniature aircraft.

In the edited footage, the picture of the blazing twin towers and the Pentagon building hit on the same day were used as a background.

In the tape, parts of which had been aired by Al Jazeera television on Thursday, bin Laden told the leaders of attacks that would kill almost 3,000 people:

"Talk yourselves into martyrdom operations, encourage yourselves a lot. At the beginning you will not be used to the idea and you will think it is a difficult thing."

The documentary-style tape by al Qaeda's media arm, al Sahab, showed the attackers in martial arts training and talking with bin Laden in what appeared to be a meeting to plan for the 2001 attacks that triggered the United States' "war on terror."

...

Wow definitely gotta give it to the US government. This is an excellent touch in their cover-up. ... or maybe just another "great" day for Allah.

[Lamb Boy]

Re: 9-11 Truth ...

Wow definitely gotta give it to the US government. This is an excellent touch in their cover-up. ... or maybe just another "great" day for Allah.

Ok Sip I'll be nice about this one but your incessant attitude and arrogance that somehow you know more than everybody else is getting seriously old. You haven't even taken the time to view any of the lectures, so whatever.

Does Osama hate America ... duh yes that's a "no brainer". Has Osama also stated on multiple occasions that he had nothing to do with the attacks on 9-11 ... yes. In fact there is only ONE tape, "the smoking gun tape", in which he admits it was "his" plan.

Sip, if you actually had an open mind and viewed any of the material covering this topic out there you would already know this. One tape he states that he was responsible for 9-11, which most ppl of average intelligence can ascertain is certainly NOT Osama, and on several occasions where he states he had nothing to do with it. Aside from not looking like Osama he also wrote with his right hand, Osama is a lefty, and was wearing a gold ring which is highly unlikely for a Muslim zealot like himself.

Here is a picture of him from the "smoking gun tape" which Muslims are quick to point out is in fact NOT Osama.



Here's a link ...
Smoking Gun Osama?

Well pre 9-11 he hated America and so this in and of itself doesn't make him the chief culprit ... just a patsy. Keep in mind a patsy is someone with ALL of the criminal intent in the world just incapable of performing the crimes without outside resources. In no way is he an innocent man but according to the horse’s mouth on several occasions he had nothing to do with it. Here ya go ...

September 28, 2001. In this interview, bin Laden says of the September 11 attacks in the US:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

Finally, as you seem to have forgotten some basic American history in all of your CS classes. What is one of the first and still most celebrated American false flag acts of terrorism ever committed by our own ppl? No where near as bad as 9-11 but same idea ...

[Anonymouse]

Re: 9-11 Truth ...

Ok Sip I'll be nice about this one but your incessant attitude and arrogance that somehow you know more than everybody else is getting seriously old. You haven't even taken the time to view any of the lectures, so whatever.

Does Osama hate America ... duh yes that's a "no brainer". Has Osama also stated on multiple occasions that he had nothing to do with the attacks on 9-11 ... yes. In fact there is only ONE tape, "the smoking gun tape", in which he admits it was "his" plan.

Sip, if you actually had an open mind and viewed any of the material covering this topic out there you would already know this. One tape he states that he was responsible for 9-11, which most ppl of average intelligence can ascertain is certainly NOT Osama, and on several occasions where he states he had nothing to do with it. Aside from not looking like Osama he also wrote with his right hand, Osama is a lefty, and was wearing a gold ring which is highly unlikely for a Muslim zealot like himself.

Here is a picture of him from the "smoking gun tape" which Muslims are quick to point out is in fact NOT Osama.



Here's a link ...
Smoking Gun Osama?

Well pre 9-11 he hated America and so this in and of itself doesn't make him the chief culprit ... just a patsy. Keep in mind a patsy is someone with ALL of the criminal intent in the world just incapable of performing the crimes without outside resources. In no way is he an innocent man but according to the horse’s mouth on several occasions he had nothing to do with it. Here ya go ...

September 28, 2001. In this interview, bin Laden says of the September 11 attacks in the US:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

Finally, as you seem to have forgotten some basic American history in all of your CS classes. What is one of the first and still most celebrated American false flag acts of terrorism ever committed by our own ppl? No where near as bad as 9-11 but same idea ...

During the 60s, the American government planned and wanted to implement terrorist acts on the United States in order to have a justification to invade Cuba. This was called Operation Northwoods.

Historically speaking, it has not been far from governments to create the problem and offer the solution. This is what we find similar in the Hegelian dialect, thesis, antithesis, gives synthesis. Problem, reaction, solution. It's very simple.

[Fedayeen]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Yep...

AND LOL@ that photo ^^ haha