What religion are you?

[Siggie]

Re: What religion are you?

Stark, you can lead a horse to water... It just makes me angry when people don't read what we say (or misread or read and don't understand, etc) and then repeat their same bunk arguments like "everything has a creator, it's a natural fact" as if natural facts appear out of thin air.

And Mouse... I've already said and I'll say it again because I believe you're in a higher intellectual category (though equally stubborn) and capable of understanding the point. So long as people believe that a god can influence the natural world, the realm of god and science are not exclusive. If people believe god created the natural world, influenced the natural world, answers prayers, talks to people, provides signs to hint at his existence, etc then there is overlap and it is in the realm of science. In these areas, there has been no evidence to support the existence of a god.

People who believe say no one had to create god, god just exists, yet they have the same problem with the evolution of humans. What do you mean they just evolved without a creator? Which is not the theory of evolution or the origin of life anyway, but just their misrepresentation of it.

Religious explanations create more questions than they answer and they are far more improbable than those supported by science. The rational and logical conclusion is to go w/ those supported by science.

Saco and the like... pick up a book about atheism, evolution, cosmology, astrophysics, something and actually read the theories. Then you can make an educated decision instead of rejecting viewpoints you don't really understand.
Oh and there is an "afterlife"... I forget who said this (maybe PZ), but it is the decades that have been added to our lives by modern science and medicine. Enjoy it and be grateful.

All of this said, I am done with this thread. I have better ways to spend my time than to try to force feed logic down your throats.

[Stark Evade]

Re: What religion are you?

Your posts have continued to smack of the same blind zeal and faith you accuse the bible thumpers of. Your desperate clinging to your cherished belief and outright mudslinging of crap toward those that disagree is a manifestation of the insecurity with which you hold these beliefs (yes what you have is a belief, not knowledge). For how dare other people hold a belief which you in your omniscience have deemed to be less credible! Your posts make it seem as if you're omniscient. Is that false? If it is false, then how can you possibly claim to know with conviction and certitude that which you endlessly rant about in this thread?

You create a web of mental gymnastics and semantic technicalities to float for people to play into your intentional confusion of the silly arguments here (which are very simple) that somehow your argument is full proof. This is the problem I have with atheists of your stripe (which makes 90% of atheists) - their hubris and self-importance in thinking that they and they alone have solved life's eternal mystery.

Truth is, your argument is just as much based on limitations of knowledge as is the bible thumpers'. Only the most arrogant morons can claim to have deciphered truth. You have just displayed it.

I am not an atheist. I am an agnostic who no longer calls himself an agnostic. I spent years getting in to arguments with atheists until I got bored of it and saw nothing to gain from it. Thanks, though. The mediocrity of your thoughts is rewarding and enlightening.

What part of the fact that science cannot prove that which is beyond its limits do you not understand?

Stop being so undeservedly condescending. I have always understood that. You don't seem to understand that the position I am taking accepts that and says it doesn't matter. Putting a bunch of things under the umbrella of "beliefs" is misleading. There are reasonable and unreasonable beliefs. I'm sorry but I just can't state it anymore clearly than I have. Go and take a ballet class or something.

[Anonymouse]

Re: What religion are you?

I am not an atheist. I am an agnostic who no longer calls himself an agnostic. I spent years getting in to arguments with atheists until I got bored of it and saw nothing to gain from it. Thanks, though. The mediocrity of your thoughts is rewarding and enlightening.

Stop being so undeservedly condescending. I have always understood that. You don't seem to understand that the position I am taking accepts that and says it doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I just can't state it anymore clearly than I have. Go and take a ballet class or something.

Perhaps if you were more cogent and better adept at expressing your thoughts as opposed to trying to sound like an elitist, we would not be in this web of confusion over positions. If that's what you're stating, then we have no disagreement. I have no personal stake in a God. I do not care.

[Stark Evade]

Re: What religion are you?

Perhaps if you were more cogent and better adept at expressing your thoughts as opposed to trying to sound like an elitist, we would not be in this web of confusion over positions. If that's what you're stating, then we have no disagreement. I have no personal stake in a God. I do not care.

I am elite. I have no qualms about being an elitist. But I don't let that keep me from making my point. I think my posts have been exceedingly clear. It is frustrating to be the victim of someone's momentum of discord, having my statements ignored.

[Anonymouse]

Re: What religion are you?

I am elite. I have no qualms about being an elitist. But I don't let that keep me from making my point. I think my posts have been exceedingly clear. It is frustrating to be the victim of someone's momentum of discord, having my statements ignored.

Translation:

Dear Diary,

Mood, apathetic. Sometimes I think you're the only one who understands me, diary.

Love,
Dusken

[Stark Evade]

Re: What religion are you?

There it is. I was waiting for it.

[Siggie]

Re: What religion are you?

Oh come on... *stands next to Stark Evade*

[Crimson Glow]

Re: What religion are you?

It's the classic Armand technique. Keep eluding the arguments and points being made by either calling them wrong, arguing a straw man or ignoring them altogether till everyone who's not on his side in the thread gives up. Then, when people stop responding because they're tired of his circular logic, he declares "victory". You're very Ryan-like in that way, Armand.

Do you really think it's me, or Dusken, or Siggie that isn't "cogent", or is having trouble expressing themselves? If you weren't so hellbent on trying to twist what people are saying into something totally different just so it will fit a rebuttal you had planned out, maybe you'd comprehend the clearly spelled out arguments, and actually ADDRESS them for once, instead of wasting your time attempting to belittle trivial side subjects.

I'll keep quoting this part till you finally reply to the actual content....

OK, forget everything else in this reply for a second, and let's just try this. There had to be a point BEFORE we accepted this, right? There WAS a time before Christ, or Buddha, or Krishna, or Mohammad, or Zues, or Osiris, Ra, Mithras, etc. correct? With me so far, or are you disagreeing with this much already? If you agree there was a time before all these supernatural figures were introduced to us, let us continue. This now leaves us with the issue of when was the concept of deities, or divine beings created, and why? How did this concept even come about? Why was it accepted, and how did these people know and define who/what these deities were? Why did people stop believing in one, and accept another (at least, I don't think anyone still believes in ancient Greek and Egyptian gods)? Please, for the love of god (no pun intended), could you at least address the paradigm I'm raising in this last paragraph DIRECTLY? After all, it arises as a direct result (contradiction) of your "can't prove or disprove god" rhetoric.

[jgk3]

Re: What religion are you?

Why are humans capable and willing to believe in supernatural things if it's so "goddamn useless and pathetic"? What is it for? Why does the brain reward itself for such course of action in certain contexts?

And in arguments like these, it's hard, if not impossible, to address eachother's points if all we're intent on is conveying our own message with our own points. I'd agree with the idea that this is more a problem with our willingness to communicate as a group than with anyone's subjective belief system.

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

Starting from the top.

Just because I am creating this post, it doesn't mean I am God.

I didn’t say you were. You’re just the creator of the post. Pointless sentence/post #1.

Stark, you can lead a horse to water... It just makes me angry when people don't read what we say (or misread or read and don't understand, etc) and then repeat their same bunk arguments like "everything has a creator, it's a natural fact" as if natural facts appear out of thin air.

Let’s see, maybe ORGANIC facts would do you more justice??? When there was no science, there were no facts at all??? This world still went on whether you found out how it worked or not so YES, I re-state the phrase NATURAL FACT. The goal of life isn’t to find out how life works, it’s to make it work and make it useful because by the time you find out how this world works, you’ll see that your life is over and everything you “found out” was simply useless because YOU AREN’T IN THE WORLD ANYMORE. The point of life is not to ONLY find out how it works and waste it on material satisfaction because it is limited and lasts for very short moments. “Someone” gave us freewill and that “someone” isn’t forcing us to believe in him. That is where he sees who the true believers are and who the “scientists” are. You know what? Keep finding out how the world works. I have more important things to do and just incase, I can give you a much better analysis of life then you could through science.

So long as people believe that a god can influence the natural world, the realm of god and science are not exclusive. If people believe god created the natural world, influenced the natural world, answers prayers, talks to people, provides signs to hint at his existence, etc then there is overlap and it is in the realm of science. In these areas, there has been no evidence to support the existence of a god.

There has been evidence, but people decide whether to believe in them or not. You keep saying the same ridiculous thing over and over again. WHY DO YOU NEED COLD HARD EVIDENCE? WHY DO YOU ANALYSE LIFE?

Religious explanations create more questions than they answer and they are far more improbable than those supported by science. The rational and logical conclusion is to go w/ those supported by science.

Science can only go so far. It just describes the obvious through complicated or easier means. Religious explanations? You don’t need explanations to be religious but believe it or not, there are explanations YOU avoid. When people try to judge God, they will never understand him. God is not a person like me and you, driving a Rolls-Royce and popping a bottle champagne. You can’t imagine him and then say he doesn’t exist. You and your views are ridiculous.

Saco and the like... pick up a book about atheism, evolution, cosmology, astrophysics, something and actually read the theories.

It’s all material wastes of time but I have, just incase your wondering, so YOU … pick ANY book, besides the bible which has been twisted by a million people to suite their tastes. Religion is not a theory. Haven’t you noticed it doesn’t even FEEL material? That’s why you are so confused. A person who doesn't understand first grade math will never be able to understand arithmetic.

Then you can make an educated decision instead of rejecting viewpoints you don't really understand.

Haha, or is it the other way around? You’re knowledge is so bound together yet you still claim you know so much? The human mind is interesting, truly.

Oh and there is an "afterlife"... I forget who said this (maybe PZ), but it is the decades that have been added to our lives by modern science and medicine. Enjoy it and be grateful.

Those decades were added because we are humans, not only by medicine. There are people who can’t be saved with all the medicines in the world yet there are people who live for a century without almost any medicine. Look at the animals, millions of them don't get medicine but still live, who should they be grateful to? Science? Which has destroyed the world as much as it has helped it? You’re views are pointless. AND ONE THING, "WHO" am I supposed to be grateful to? When medicine and the like didn’t exist much, people still lived for long lives. Who were THEY supposed to be grateful to? I’m still grateful to science but I’m even MORE grateful to the one who created all these elements so that confused scientists could judge God and think they were the sole purpose of adding “decades” to people’s lives.

All of this said, I am done with this thread. I have better ways to spend my time than to try to force feed logic down your throats. Stark, you can lead a horse to water... It just makes me angry when people don't read what we say (or misread or read and don't understand, etc) and then repeat their same bunk arguments like "everything has a creator, it's a natural fact" as if natural facts appear out of thin air.

And Mouse... I've already said and I'll say it again because I believe you're in a higher intellectual category (though equally stubborn) and capable of understanding the point. So long as people believe that a god can influence the natural world, the realm of god and science are not exclusive. If people believe god created the natural world, influenced the natural world, answers prayers, talks to people, provides signs to hint at his existence, etc then there is overlap and it is in the realm of science. In these areas, there has been no evidence to support the existence of a god.

People who believe say no one had to create god, god just exists, yet they have the same problem with the evolution of humans. What do you mean they just evolved without a creator? Which is not the theory of evolution or the origin of life anyway, but just their misrepresentation of it.

Religious explanations create more questions than they answer and they are far more improbable than those supported by science. The rational and logical conclusion is to go w/ those supported by science.

Saco and the like... pick up a book about atheism, evolution, cosmology, astrophysics, something and actually read the theories. Then you can make an educated decision instead of rejecting viewpoints you don't really understand.
Oh and there is an "afterlife"... I forget who said this (maybe PZ), but it is the decades that have been added to our lives by modern science and medicine. Enjoy it and be grateful.

All of this said, I am done with this thread. I have better ways to spend my time than to try to force feed logic down your throats.

Likewise. I have more important things to do then simply LIVE materially. I do that too though and I love it. Being spiritual doesn't mean living in the Himalayas. There are many rivers in the world but they all lead to the ocean. What your doing isn’t exactly a better way of spending your time, you’re just spending it. And just incase, I can give you a much better analysis of life then you could through all the science in the world. You didn’t even answer the posts that bashed your words to the ground. That was pretty easy, too.

How did this concept even come about?

Religion never started. It has always been there. Just like when we were born, this world didn’t just START turning. God never dies, never gets old, never is born, and can do anything he wishes, that includes coming down to this world, creating everything we see, creating conflicts, creating US, etc. This is all for our own good and the questions you put up show that you ask WHEN did God exist but you fail to understand that he ALWAYS existed. I rest my case and good luck to all. No one is proving anything here, we just have to not say that either doesn’t exist. Everything that happens doesn’t only happen on its own accord just like some live longer lives then others. Half of the religions, maybe all of them, you probably haven’t even read or understood and once you do, then come up here and talk about them. You can’t explain tenth grade material to a first or second grader, or someone who doesn’t want to or is afraid of looking in any other direction. I have lived and looked in many directions, including theories that simply state the ordinary. What happens after that, after everything, say, is explained about this world?!?!?