Religion and Atheism

[KanadaHye]

It doesn't matter if you vote democrat or republican, the results are decided by higher powers that are out of your control. This is called corruption.

It doesn't matter if you are a spiritual being who makes decisions based on empathy or an atheist robot that makes decisions based on statistics and data. You're prone to manipulation either way.

It doesn't matter either way and people are wasting their time over the debate.

What does matter is being sucessful in life and the goal of either camp is to make sure that doesn't happen.

The U.S.S.R was founded on state sponsered Atheism and built a Communist Empire. Religion was forbidden. America fought for the freedom of religion and built a Capitalist Empire under the belief of a deity. Both systems have been successful in controlling human life.

Truth is knowledge. Knowledge is freedom.

Why all the fuss?

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

It doesn't matter if you are a spiritual being who makes decisions based on empathy or an atheist robot that makes decisions based on statistics and data. You're prone to manipulation either way.

Quite the assumption. Being an atheist doesn't make one a robot nor does it preclude empathy.

It doesn't matter either way and people are wasting their time over the debate.

What debate is that?

What does matter is being sucessful in life and the goal of either camp is to make sure that doesn't happen.

The goal of which camps? Are you talking about theists and atheists or political parties?
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the goal is to prevent the highly subjective outcome of "success"?

The U.S.S.R was founded on state sponsered Atheism and built a Communist Empire. Religion was forbidden. America fought for the freedom of religion and built a Capitalist Empire under the belief of a deity. Both systems have been successful in controlling human life.

Hmm... Perhaps someone that knows more about this can jump in, but I believe that religion was still permitted under Communism. What was not permitted was state sponsored religion, i.e. teaching religion in public schools.

Truth is knowledge. Knowledge is freedom.

Atheists are after truth and knowledge. This is why we require evidence for belief.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Quite the assumption. Being an atheist doesn't make one a robot nor does it preclude empathy.

If someone requires evidence supported by data and numbers to base decisions, empathy is pushed aside. It is a way of thinking... a robotic way of logic. It's an ideology.

What debate is that?

The thousands of videos on the internet forcing people's ideology on each other. What are they trying to prove and why?

The goal of which camps? Are you talking about theists and atheists or political parties?

Same difference.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that the goal is to prevent the highly subjective outcome of "success"?

The widespread poverty caused by both Communism and Capitalism using either Atheism or Religion to control the mass populations for the benefit of states and/or governments. Communism helps the poor. Capitalism helps the rich. The ideology enforced on the people makes no difference as long as they all are all forced to believe the same thing.

Hmm... Perhaps someone that knows more about this can jump in, but I believe that religion was still permitted under Communism. What was not permitted was state sponsored religion, i.e. teaching religion in public schools.

Churches were destroyed, priests were killed prior to Russia's conversion from Orthodox Christianity to Communist/Atheist U.S.S.R. Widespread corruption was the result.

Atheists are after truth and knowledge. This is why we require evidence for belief.

Evidence can be created to manipulate belief... it's rather simple for those who have the power to do so. Unless the evidence is first hand or can be proven repeatedly, the belief is blind. It's like somebody trusting a car mechanic about diagnosis when they know nothing about cars or everything they know, they learned from their mechanic.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I didn't know the definition of empathy so I looked it up:

1 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

I have to say I am even more confused now than when I started this thread. What does empathy have to do with the rejection of the notion of "God"?

The way I see it, the difference between the religious and the atheists is that one group says God is responsible for things we can't explain while the other side says no way.

They are both exhibiting robotic behavior and obviously neither can prove their case or we wouldn't be having all these endless debates.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Also I see the terms "spiritual" and "atheist" often used as if they are mutually exclusive. I don't think that's correct. One can certainly reject God while still being highly spiritual ... I don't know much about Buddhists but it strikes me that they are more of this mixed category.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Also I see the terms "spiritual" and "atheist" often used as if they are mutually exclusive. I don't think that's correct. One can certainly reject God while still being highly spiritual ... I don't know much about Buddhists but it strikes me that they are more of this mixed category.

I agree... spirtuality comes from the understanding of mankind and nature. While there are many that believe in an almighty and intelligent creator, they don't believe in a personal God which would make them atheist in terms of the American concept of God (all controlling).

[Yeznik]

Re: Religion and Atheism

People who believe in some type of supernatural being or power(s) but don't know who it is, are generally called Agnostic.

People who don't believe in any type of super natural being or powers(s) are generally called Atheists.

People who believe in many gods are Polytheists.

People who believe in one God are Monotheists.

There are other descriptions of what people believe as well. But the difference is in America all the above have a right to some type of self determination. So all the groups of people listed above have a right to their belief in America. So when it comes down to politics everyone has an equal vote, the Agnostic, Atheist, Polytheist and Monotheist. What the focus needs to be on is the people running governments.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

If someone requires evidence supported by data and numbers to base decisions, empathy is pushed aside. It is a way of thinking... a robotic way of logic. It's an ideology.

Science is a means of acquiring knowledge. Sure, we should try to make rational decisions, but that doesn't push aside empathy. I don't see the incompatibility.
Robots do what they are programmed to, there's not thought, so this isn't a good analogy. Finally it's a METHOD of acquiring knowledge not a belief system, so no, it's not an ideology.

Evidence can be created to manipulate belief... it's rather simple for those who have the power to do so. Unless the evidence is first hand or can be proven repeatedly, the belief is blind. It's like somebody trusting a car mechanic about diagnosis when they know nothing about cars or everything they know, they learned from their mechanic.

That's not how it works. They don't just publish or report their conclusion, but exactly what pre-existing information supports their prediction, precisely how they tested their prediction, describe the data, the results of that test, and what those results can mean. Then people go over that to make sure there aren't problems with that specific study's methodology, statistics, reasoning, etc. Even if there's not, others attempt to replicate the findings. We don't just take one dude's word for something. Replication is very central to science.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

People who believe in some type of supernatural being or power(s) but don't know who it is, are generally called Agnostic.

People who don't believe in any type of super natural being or powers(s) are generally called Atheists.

People who believe in many gods are Polytheists.

People who believe in one God are Monotheists.

There are other descriptions of what people believe as well. But the difference is in America all the above have a right to some type of self determination. So all the groups of people listed above have a right to their belief in America. So when it comes down to politics everyone has an equal vote, the Agnostic, Atheist, Polytheist and Monotheist. What the focus needs to be on is the people running governments.

So Monotheists have met God whereas Agnostics haven't?

As far as America goes... the government clearly states one nation under God. Not one nation under gods or one government that doesn't care what you do or think. Further more, if it was up to the government... it would rephrase it to one world under God.

Science is a means of acquiring knowledge. Sure, we should try to make rational decisions, but that doesn't push aside empathy. I don't see the incompatibility.
Robots do what they are programmed to, there's not thought, so this isn't a good analogy. Finally it's a METHOD of acquiring knowledge not a belief system, so no, it's not an ideology.

It's a way of making decisions... much like a business decision which is made on what is more profitable, empathy doesn't play a role in a data/evidence based decision. The data/evidence presented (whether true or false) overrules any gut feeling or personal sentiment. Robots make decisions based on logic... their actions/thought processes depends on the data/input. It is an ideology (way of looking at things).

That's not how it works. They don't just publish or report their conclusion, but exactly what pre-existing information supports their prediction, precisely how they tested their prediction, describe the data, the results of that test, and what those results can mean. Then people go over that to make sure there aren't problems with that specific study's methodology, statistics, reasoning, etc. Even if there's not, others attempt to replicate the findings. We don't just take one dude's word for something. Replication is very central to science.

You're confusing how it's supposed to work with the corruption that is involved at top levels.

[Lucin]

Re: Religion and Atheism

If someone requires evidence supported by data and numbers to base decisions, empathy is pushed aside. It is a way of thinking... a robotic way of logic. It's an ideology.

So true. I believe the moment you 'open your mouth', it is inspired with an ideology.