Religion and Atheism

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Regardless of what it's called, self discipline requires some basic building blocks to build on. You can call it whatever you want but that's the basis of many religions.

Once again, no one is saying you don't need disciple for religion. Actually I agree with you 110% that to follow most of these religions you have to have a LOT of self discipline. The problem with what you said is that you said the inverse which is not true.

To recap yet again:

Yes agreed: being religious = having lots of self discipline
(we agree on this so you don't have to say it again).

No, not true: not being religious = not having self discipline.
(this is where you are making your mistake and neither Siggie nor I agree with you).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That is probably the most common mistake most people make (it's like the first example used in any logic or basic math course -- look up converse, inverse, and contra-positive if you haven't taken such courses).

True: I am religious --> I have self discipline
True: I do not have self discipline --> I am not religious.
FALSE: I do not have self discipline --> I am not religious. This, what you said, which is totally wrong.

Yes you have to have self discipline to be religious. But just because you are not religious does NOT mean you don't have self discipline. That's what Siggie was trying to say.

Regardless of what it's called, self discipline requires some basic building blocks to build on. You can call it whatever you want but that's the basis of many religions.

For example, this one blogger is promoting his angle on self discipline http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...lf-discipline/ and he uses "the 5 pillars of self-discipline" as his building blocks identifying Acceptance, Willpower, Hard Work, Industry, and Persistence. Sure you don't have to call it "religion" but in essence he took the concepts from "the 5 pillars of Islam".

He quotes:

"Self-discipline can empower you to overcome any addiction or lose any amount of weight. It can wipe out procrastination, disorder, and ignorance. Within the domain of problems it can solve, self-discipline is simply unmatched. Moreover, it becomes a powerful teammate when combined with other tools like passion, goal-setting, and planning."

The 'Five Pillars' of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:

Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
Establishment of the daily prayers;
Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
Self-purification through fasting; and
The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

So according to Islam, there shouldn't be any fat Muslims. So where in the "5 pillars" of Islam does it say that all infidels must be killed?

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'm not religious = I have no self discipline

That is probably the most common mistake most people make (it's like the first example used in any logic or basic math course -- look up converse, inverse, and contra-positive if you haven't taken such courses).

True: I am religious --> I have self discipline
True: I do not have self discipline --> I am not religious.
FALSE: I do not have self discipline --> I am not religious. This, what you said, which is totally wrong.

Yes you have to have self discipline to be religious. But just because you are not religious does NOT mean you don't have self discipline. That's what Siggie was trying to say.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

And you have a terrible read of me. I do not advocate widespread abortion, don't agree with much of the modern (3rd wave i guess?) feminist movement, and I think communism was a terrible idea (I'm a fan of personal responsibility).

Bahahahahahahahah. Can't believe I missed this one.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Ah, getting personal again? Must be frustrated.

There is no discussing anything with you. You're about as open minded as Stalin was.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'm talking about self discipline (imposing rules on yourself, you're your own ruler and don't need lawyers and/or government to rule you). It seems you need to be ruled because you wouldn't know how to rule yourself.

Ah, getting personal again? Must be frustrated.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Okay, you're not interested in a dialogue, clearly.
Discipline is an adherence to rules, but there are no rules in religion. Got it. Bubye.

I'm talking about self discipline (imposing rules on yourself, you're your own ruler and don't need lawyers and/or government to rule you). It seems you need to be ruled because you wouldn't know how to rule yourself.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Religion doesn't impose rules on you, Lawyers impose rules on you. Religion frees you from Lawyers.

Discipline is an adherence to rules, but there are no rules in religion.

Okay, clearly you're not interested in a dialogue since you've begun the famous Kanadian SideStep. Guess this isn't going the way you'd hoped. Got it. Bubye.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Now religion IS discipline?

Would you really be proud that you only know how to behave because religion imposes rules on you?
Does it follow that if there weren't a book telling you what to do, what to think, and how to act, we wouldn't otherwise know how?

Religion doesn't impose rules on you, Lawyers impose rules on you. Religion frees you from Lawyers.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Beats me, you're the one arguing against having discipline since that's what religion promotes. So then you say "but you can have discipline without religion" but again... you're in a contradiction because that's what religion IS.

Now religion IS discipline?

Would you really be proud that you only know how to behave because religion imposes rules on you?
Does it follow that if there weren't a book telling you what to do, what to think, and how to act, we wouldn't otherwise know how?