Atheism and being Armenian

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Yeah, I don't see us as being inferior to either of those groups if we didn't have this attachment to church.
Why do you feel it is something we need? No one should convince us to destroy our churches. They are part of our history and they should be preserved. It seems like religion that's often a motivation to destroy history. E.g. destroying pagan buildings, not preserving history from our pagan past, etc. as efforts to forget the past and dedicate ourselves to the present and future as Christians. For instance, the Greeks and Egyptians aren't now destroying their ancient temples because the religion has changed and they no longer believe in Zeus, Athena, Ra, or Osiris.

[Mos]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Christianity has not even been part of the Armenian identity for the majority of its history, let alone long enough for us to insist it is an essential element of being Armenian.

Christianity greatly refined Armenian identity. After the adoption of Christianity, it was a struggle to keep our sacred religion as other powers tried to convert us. The Armenian church remained a centre of research, culture, and heritage preservation. During the Genocide, converting out of Christianity to Islam was basically converting to become a Turk. Denying the importance of the Christian religion to Armenian history and identity is not looking clearly at the facts. If we had given up our religion, we would be assimilated Turks, Kurds, and Azeri for all I know. And if it wasn't essential element, you wouldn't have Armenian church every place where there is sizeable Armenian community.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Yeah, I don't see us as being inferior to either of those groups if we didn't have this attachment to church.
Why do you feel it is something we need? No one should convince us to destroy our churches. They are part of our history and they should be preserved. It seems like religion that's often a motivation to destroy history. E.g. destroying pagan buildings, not preserving history from our pagan past, etc. as efforts to forget the past and dedicate ourselves to the present and future as Christians. For instance, the Greeks and Egyptians aren't now destroying their ancient temples because the religion has changed and they no longer believe in Zeus, Athena, Ra, or Osiris.

Here is a pic of Pagan architecture in Garni. Are you comparing this basic bird house with pillars to the highly complex mathematically calculated and detailed architecture of our Churches?

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

hehehe ... kanada, all I can say it I am glad you didn't leave the last time you got mad

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The Armenian church remained a centre of research, culture, and heritage preservation.

Perhaps ... but I think Churches have done faaaaaaar more damage to "research" than we can even begin to imagine. I mean even to this day, 2000 years after Jesus you have people that are convinced the Earth is 5000 years old and there were dinosaurs on Noah' ship (or that there was a boat with 2 of each kind of animal in it!!!!). And the church keeps reinforcing this over and over. People still think Jesus is coming to save them! You still want to maintain this has helped "us"?

But even if that is the case and the Church has been soo amazing .. what possible reason do we have to keep it around now? Once the shoe is worn out, you throw it out and get a new one. Somehow we are hell bent on "preserving" this 2000 year old pair of slippers and we are trying to keep the same march to the same drum beat.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Perhaps ... but I think Churches have done faaaaaaar more damage to "research" than we can even begin to imagine. I mean even to this day, 2000 years after Jesus you have people that are convinced the Earth is 5000 years old and there were dinosaurs on Noah' ship (or that there was a boat with 2 of each kind of animal in it!!!!). And the church keeps reinforcing this over and over. People still think Jesus is coming to save them! You still want to maintain this has helped "us"?

But even if that is the case and the Church has been soo amazing .. what possible reason do we have to keep it around now? Once the shoe is worn out, you throw it out and get a new one. Somehow we are hell bent on "preserving" this 2000 year old pair of slippers and we are trying to keep the same march to the same drum beat.

How many bomb shelters have been built because people are certain of nuclear war.... I bet the people in New Orleans wished they had an Ark or even a dingy when their city was flooded

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Here is a pic of Pagan architecture in Garni. Are you comparing this basic bird house with pillars to the highly complex mathematically calculated and detailed architecture of our Churches?

Do you actually read posts and think about a reply before posting a reply or do you just skim and blurt out the first thing that comes to mind? What in the world does this have to do with anything? This is even further off the mark than the original comment about destroying churches.

To illustrate the disconnect:

Kanada: Shoes are essential to being human.

Siggie: There were humans before shoes.

Kanada: xxxs and Muslims wear shoes. Why should we destroy our shoes?

Siggie: Who said anything about destroying them? I don't think we should destroy our shoes. They're part of our history and we should preserve them just as the Egyptians and Greeks continues to preserve their shoes even when they stopped wearing that style of shoe.

Kanada: Are you comparing this ugly poorly designed Greek footsack to this fine, complex, Armenian shoe?

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HUH? Comparing the architecture of the churches is not relevant. The point is that there is no need to destroy any of them. The only comparison I made was to point to these cultures as examples of ones where the national religion changed, but in the present day, they see no need to destroy things associated with the religion(s) of history.

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The other problem with destroying things is that we are in danger of forgetting and repeating mistakes We should preserve, cherish, and learn from our churches. Much like we learn from anything else in history. Hopefully we can better ourselves.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

HUH? Comparing the architecture of the churches is not relevant. The point is that there is no need to destroy any of them. The only comparison I made was to point to these cultures as examples of ones where the national religion changed, but in the present day, they see no need to destroy things associated with the religion(s) of history.

The point is they are THOUSANDS of years old and THEY GET DESTROYED BY NATURE UNLESS THEY ARE RESTORED. However, thousands of our Orthodox Churches were RECENTLY DESTROYED in hopes of covering up OUR EXISTENCE AND LAYING CLAIM TO OUR GOD GIVEN LANDS.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The point is they are THOUSANDS of years old and THEY GET DESTROYED BY NATURE UNLESS THEY ARE RESTORED. However, thousands of our Orthodox Churches were RECENTLY DESTROYED in hopes cover up OUR EXISTENCE AND LAYING CLAIM TO OUR GOD GIVEN LANDS.

Yes, I'm aware that our churches are being destroyed for that reason. Screaming doesn't illuminate what that has to do with *this* discussion.