How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

As opposed to 21st century social experiments?

I am reading Anna Karenina and interestingly enough, Tolstoy called a lot of what's been said are traditional values we should preserve "old-fashioned" in 1873. :-| So, it would appear these ideas may not be novel 21st century inventions.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Your attempts to absolve religion of being a tool for genocide is futile. Regardless of why the genocide started it was obvious that religion had a lot to do with justifying and carrying out such action. Your arguments always try to absolve religion of the eviles it inflicts on humanity and always paint a rosy picture of how wonderful chrystianity is. It is very much like the conversations we had about god where if something bad happens well that was because of the devile or because of what people did but when something good happens well that is gods work.. If you are going to credit the bad things to humanity then why not the good thinngs to? People like pepsiaddict like to ware blinders and only see the good (even when it is bad) that religion does but if you take off the blinders the farce that is religion quickely falls apart along with many other farces in society. Taking off the blinders is the key to human selfrealization. You will never reach you potential while looking at the world through blinders. There is a movement now to privatize public education which is the method coorporations are going to use to keep those blinders on people and to stop them from challanging the special interest government system we in the USA have. It does not matter which of the two parties take power-theyboth want you wearing blinders. Blinders are easy to ware because they give people a sense of comfort-if i pretend not to see the bad then it wont effect me as much.. and yeh that may be true - it may feel better to be blind but it will invariably lead to a far worst situation for those who choose to be blind.

The Hamidian massacres was due to government wanting to encroach on Armenian autonomy. No matter where Armenians are in the world, we don't like to be governed or taxed. Greeks, same thing... that is why the Greek government can't collect enough taxes to sustain a proper government. Class was the reason for motivating uneducated Turks and Kurds to participate in the Genocide. That wasn't the reason why there was an assault on all Christians. Keep in mind that the Empire was larger than what is Turkey today and only those Christians on particular land was forced out of their homes.

From the Armenian point of view, lives were the most important thing lost but from a thief's point of view, there was visions of gold running through their heads.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

They been going on killing sprees all along. Learn about the Hamidian massacres. There is a alliance between the turks and xxxs even back then. Class or no classthe fact remains that only the chrystians were killed. There were plenty of poor or lower class armenians to and using your argument they would have been spared but were not. Lives was the most important thing armenians lost-not gold.

The Hamidian massacres was due to government wanting to encroach on Armenian autonomy. No matter where Armenians are in the world, we don't like to be governed or taxed. Greeks, same thing... that is why the Greek government can't collect enough taxes to sustain a proper government. Class was the reason for motivating uneducated Turks and Kurds to participate in the Genocide. That wasn't the reason why there was an assault on all Christians. Keep in mind that the Empire was larger than what is Turkey today and only those Christians on particular land was forced out of their homes.

From the Armenian point of view, lives were the most important thing lost but from a thief's point of view, there was visions of gold running through their heads.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

They been going on killing sprees all along. Learn about the Hamidian massacres. There is a alliance between the turks and xxxs even back then. Class or no classthe fact remains that only the chrystians were killed. There were plenty of poor or lower class armenians to and using your argument they would have been spared but were not. Lives was the most important thing armenians lost-not gold.

I'll ask you a simple question then. If Muslims want to wipe all J3ws off the face of the Earth like the media has us believe, why weren't any of the Ottoman J3ws targeted during WWI? Why were J3ws safely migrated to Iran during WWII?

You're leaving out the important parts of the puzzle and that is class. The Kurds and Turks that participated in carrying out the genocide were poor, they had nothing to lose and everything to gain when given the opportunity to kill, loot and steal when lawlessness broke loose due to war.

Armenians lost property, land and most importantly... gold.

You can't tell me that they all woke up one day after centuries of cohabiting on the same lands and decided to go on a killing spree.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Kanadahye you are as skin deep as they come. Like you realy do not think religion had anything to do with the genocide? Then why were all the chrystians killed but not any of the muslims? Armenians, greeks, asssyrians.. all chrystians-dead or ran of but the kurds who were muslim were not harmed they were instead used ,even paid to kill us. Even now you hear about chrystians being killed in turky just because they are chrystians. This is typical argument style of religious folk - they throw a bunch of nonsense at you hoping something will stick.

I'll ask you a simple question then. If Muslims want to wipe all J3ws off the face of the Earth like the media has us believe, why weren't any of the Ottoman J3ws targeted during WWI? Why were J3ws safely migrated to Iran during WWII?

You're leaving out the important parts of the puzzle and that is class. The Kurds and Turks that participated in carrying out the genocide were poor, they had nothing to lose and everything to gain when given the opportunity to kill, loot and steal when lawlessness broke loose due to war.

Armenians lost property, land and most importantly... gold.

You can't tell me that they all woke up one day after centuries of cohabiting on the same lands and decided to go on a killing spree.

(1)math guy
(2)Yoda
(3)Spock

Of the three I thought I could get that past Spock, so apparently you ain't Spock.
I was hoping to make the point that logic does not trump all.
I do think I deserve a beer for trying though.
Cool sword and nice swordsmanship.
Artashes

Logic does not trump all. It certainly doesn't get a guy women either

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Isk ura ait past vor hetevankner kan? Du teseles nman past kam karoghes artadrel da?

Du spasum es vor Astvac argeli amen vat ban ays ashxarum u ir kamkov vat ban chtoxni? Astvac mez tvel a azatutyun, vorov menk karox enk lav u vat baner anel mer kyankum, baic menk inch vor el anenk ays kyankum, astvac mez kdati. Past@ mnum e past, vor menk azatutyun unenk, vor menk karox enk voroshumner kayacnel ays kyankum, ayd shat hzor ban a, baic menk petk a @ndunenk, vor dra het mek tex, shat lurj hetevankner kan...

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Actually you are making my point very clear. As i have been saying all along religion is/was/will be used to justify the crimes man commits vs fellow man. Yeh there are/were/will be other real reasons behind the bad things but religion makes doing these things possible and tolorable for the doer and his supporters.

I could be mistaken(talk to Yoda)but I think your argument is only holds superficial water.
The turks use Muslimism as a front. They say -- see I'm one of you --.
The genocide started the first time they met any people's. The use use it as an excuse.
The kurds would join with anyone who gave them a chance to steal anything from anyone, and vice verse the turks would accept anyone into the fold that would (a)acknowledge their superiority,(b)take their orders,(c)give them a b job.
The "you have to accept Mohammad is really only superficial for the turk to advance their pan jurkic crap.
If they thought they could accomplish pan jurkism by dropping mohamy, he'd hit the floor like a ton of bricks.
Just my opinion .
Artashes

[Mos]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Astco chstmartutyun urer yegherni jamanak? Yete artyok chsamartutyun liner apa nman baner chain lini bayts past pasta. Yete ches uzum past intunel uremn do aprumes ail askharum vor goutiun uni menak ko glkhum. Hey gegev have you seen what the lemmings do every few years? Just because there are many believers does not make the beliefe correct. Since athism and agnosticism are growing does that mean those ideas are becoming more correct to? This kind of logic never did make sense but such things do not seem to bother religious people atleast until that religion falls out of fashion. Every religion has its crazies-pagans had the same issues when chrystianity was first introduced to them but when it became more popular more people jumped on the bandwagon. I know it must be a frightening thing to jump off of a bandwagon and to land onto reality. Reality is not always pretty and does not promise you a thing but atleast you know its the real thing.

Du spasum es vor Astvac argeli amen vat ban ays ashxarum u ir kamkov vat ban chtoxni? Astvac mez tvel a azatutyun, vorov menk karox enk lav u vat baner anel mer kyankum, baic menk inch vor el anenk ays kyankum, astvac mez kdati. Past@ mnum e past, vor menk azatutyun unenk, vor menk karox enk voroshumner kayacnel ays kyankum, ayd shat hzor ban a, baic menk petk a @ndunenk, vor dra het mek tex, shat lurj hetevankner kan...

[Artashes]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Kanadahye you are as skin deep as they come. Like you realy do not think religion had anything to do with the genocide? Then why were all the chrystians killed but not any of the muslims? Armenians, greeks, asssyrians.. all chrystians-dead or ran of but the kurds who were muslim were not harmed they were instead used ,even paid to kill us. Even now you hear about chrystians being killed in turky just because they are chrystians. This is typical argument style of religious folk - they throw a bunch of nonsense at you hoping something will stick.

I could be mistaken(talk to Yoda)but I think your argument is only holds superficial water.
The turks use Muslimism as a front. They say -- see I'm one of you --.
The genocide started the first time they met any people's. The use use it as an excuse.
The kurds would join with anyone who gave them a chance to steal anything from anyone, and vice verse the turks would accept anyone into the fold that would (a)acknowledge their superiority,(b)take their orders,(c)give them a b job.
The "you have to accept Mohammad is really only superficial for the turk to advance their pan jurkic crap.
If they thought they could accomplish pan jurkism by dropping mohamy, he'd hit the floor like a ton of bricks.
Just my opinion .
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

You've got a point there. I'm more like a Union Representative.



cute... so 0x2=1x0... Unfortunately, you can't cancel out 0s

(1)math guy
(2)Yoda
(3)Spock

Of the three I thought I could get that past Spock, so apparently you ain't Spock.
I was hoping to make the point that logic does not trump all.
I do think I deserve a beer for trying though.
Cool sword and nice swordsmanship.
Artashes