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aren't y'all tired of debating this issue already?
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No it's not tiring. No issue should be stopped. On the contrary it's good for the mind to constantly exercise it. Maybe if people like you used their heads more and didn't vote vote at all hopefully, we wouldn't be in a mess like this so we wouldn't need to discuss it.Achkerov kute.Comment
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By the way, if this discussion is too boring or too complex, you can always crawl back to the Sports forum where most of you seem comfortable.Achkerov kute.Comment
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The link to that decapitation video is down but there is a new link here:
Achkerov kute.Comment
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Originally posted by Anonymouse
I dont live in FloridaComment
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Wow...you can't be serious. Blame the whistleblower? Why so? So you are oblivious to the situation, and feel that America is doing nothing but good, while the Arabs get even more angry, and you deduct "well, since we've never done anything wrong, they MUST hate freedom"? And every single culprit in this situation has claimed that they had been ordered to do so. The IQ test should maybe be passed at a higher level.Originally posted by hyebruin
Patlajan, it's really not about standing naked. You omit the fact that the pictures we saw were just a fragment of the full story. There are cases of rape, forced oral sex on other prisoners, murder, etc.
And are stupid insults the latest trend or something? Can't everybody just stick to the topic without being lame?Comment
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Baron Dants is the man of reason. He articulates perfectly well what I otherwise cannot do, due to emotional bias.Achkerov kute.Comment
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Beheaded On Camera
Commentary
By David Irving
5-12-4
Our initial reaction to the killing of a human being as a public spectacle is one of shock and revulsion.
The words uttered by President Bush are dripping with hypocrisy, however, coming as they do from a president who has signed more execution warrants as Governor of Texas than any other governor in recent history; and not a few of them have been filmed for the benefit of television documentaries.
Moreover, how many World War Two executions did the Americans photograph and film, often in excruciating detail?
Let us however stand back and review the few facts that have so far been entrusted to us by the authorities, and on which the scared media have so far breathed no comment.
First, the man was executed wearing an orange jump suit: I have long been wondering, and expressed to colleagues the opinion, that Iraqi resistance would gain maximum global propaganda effect by putting their captives through the same humiliating and painful hoops that the Americans use in Camp Delta at Guantánamo.
We British are unfortunately accomplices (even if unwilling ones) in the atrocities at Camp Delta.
Second, it was Donald Rumsfeld who announced or implied when he and his cronies embarked on their "war on terror" in the Middle East that the United States did not intend to abide by the Geneva Conventions.
Third, was this latest victim of Washington's folly the same kind of "American" as Wall Street Journal writer Daniel Pearl -- i.e. a 100 percent Israeli citizen, merely working in or from America, and probably a Mossad agent? We still remember the fury (1) of the Pearl family, living in Israel, when an Israeli newspaper blew his cover.
The clue to this, apart from the obvious ones, is that "Philadelphia businessmann" Nick Berg is said to have been a "civilian contractor".
Most of the Israeli assistance to the Coalition Forces in Iraq is in the form of civilian contractors -- i.e. hired mercenaries, supplied to operate in the fields of prisoner of war interrogation (Abu Ghraib!), Intelligence, or contract killings.
It is remarkable, is it not, that Berg was captured on April 9, over a month ago and yet not a word of his capture was breathed in the US media about it until now, when he has met his savage end. Nor do I recall any reports on the discovery of his body on Saturday.
So: remember -- you read it first here. If he was a naive and luckless Philadelphia businessman, trapped and mangled by the Moloch that his bellicose regime have created in Iraq, then truly our hearts go out to his family; if he was however a hired mercenary engaged on some covert plain clothes operation, and captured by his enemies and dealt with as a spy, this must mitigate our feelings of compassion.
That said, in a civilized society it is justice that must be seen to be done, not execution.
1. Pearl's father: 'Israeli connection' could hinder investigation
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Last updated 12/05/2004Achkerov kute.Comment
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What did we expect was going to be the result of the torture they put the Iraqi prisoners through? OUR soldiers from The US and Britain, apparently the moral guardians of the world, the world's peacebringers and policemen, are shown humiliating and torturing prisioners....with reports of rape, beatings and murder and more graphic and incriminating pictures and videos being witheld from the public.
Lawmakers Say New Abuse Photos Even Worse
23 minutes ago
White House - AP Cabinet & State
By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops went beyond the photos seen by most Americans, shaken lawmakers said Wednesday after viewing fresh pictures and video that they said depicted forced sex, brutality and dogs snarling at cowed prisoners.
Some members of Congress said they feared that making the images public would inflame international outrage and endanger Americans still in Iraq. The private screening of more than 1,600 photos in a top-secret room of the U.S. Capitol came one day after Islamic militants announced they had beheaded an American in Iraq to avenge abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison.
"I don't know how the hell these people got into our army," said Colorado Republican Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell after viewing what he called a fraction of the images.
"I saw cruel, sadistic torture," said Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., who said some of the images were of male prisoners masturbating. She said she saw a man hitting himself against a wall as though to knock himself unconscious.
Others said they saw images of corpses, military dogs snarling at cowering prisoners, women commanded to expose their breasts and sex acts, including forced homosexual sex.
"There were people who were forced to have sex with each other," said Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-N.Y.
Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., said, "There were some pictures where it looked like a prisoner was sodomizing himself" with an object. He said blood was visible in the photograph.
Not everyone reacted the same way to the additional photos.
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said he thought "some people are overreacting." (this guy has got to be on drugs)
"The people who are against the war are using this to their political ends," he said.
The private screening marked the latest turn in a scandal that has prompted President Bush to apologize to the victims and Democrats to demand the dismissal of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
Many of the photos appeared to include the same small group of soldiers who were in pictures that had already been made public. The pictures of abuse were mixed in with travelogue-type photos.
Some questionable photos appeared to have nothing to do with prisoners, including several that lawmakers believed were of sex between male and female U.S. troops.
The pictures on three discs were shown to lawmakers in the form of a slide show. Many said the images were difficult to decipher.
Shortly before the viewing began, Rumsfeld defended military interrogation techniques in Iraq, rejecting contentions that they violate international rules and may endanger Americans taken prisoner.
Rumsfeld told a Senate committee that Pentagon lawyers had approved methods such as sleep deprivation and dietary changes as well as rules permitting prisoners to be made to assume stressful positions.
Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also noted that the rules require prisoners to be treated humanely at all times.
Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill. said some of the approved techniques "go far beyond the Geneva Convention," a reference to international rules governing the treatment of prisoners of war.
The Defense Department is conducting multiple investigations into prisoner abuse.
Lawmakers were given three hours to see the photos and videos in top-secret rooms at the Capitol. The photos remained in the custody of the Pentagon as the administration tried to decide whether to release them to the public.
In the past two weeks a handful of photos have been made public along with an Army report that found numerous "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison complex near Baghdad.
In Wednesday's viewing, briefers from the Pentagon's Criminal Investigation Division conducted the sessions sought by the Senate Armed Services Committee, which has had two hearings into the abuses that have caused an international firestorm.
Committee Chairman John Warner urged before the photos were shown Wednesday that lawmakers use caution in describing them publicly.
"I think we've got to be extremely cautious ... not incite in any way further anger against our forces or others working in the cause of freedom," the Virginia Republican said on the Senate floor.
He said he didn't think they should be released to the public until trials of the troops begin to protect the legal process and avoid "inspiring the enemy to inflict further damage."
Myers said the military has taken steps to correct the problems, including replacing the military police unit that took some of the photos.
"This was a unit that had issues with just adhering to the Army's standards," Myers said. "They didn't have standardized uniforms. They were allowed to carry guns in their civilian clothes when they were off duty. They had things written on their cap. They didn't particularly want to salute."
Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who conducted the Army's first investigation into the abuse, told Congress on Tuesday that he believed the pictures were taken by military personnel using their personal digital cameras.
But Warner has said he believes some were staged as part of the interrogation process.
I REALLY hope you're just kidding or something. You blame the people who took the pictures and the whistleblower???Originally posted by hyebruin
Holy sheit! How about we blame the sick twisted demented troops who put those prisoners through whatever it is that the pictures depict. How about we start there and reprimand what they did, not the pictures they took that are like so like uhm totally gonna make us like look bad dude. 
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. -- F. Scott FitzgeraldComment
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What is even more mysterious is that the people claimed responsible now are linked to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It appears that the western propaganda media is now 'converting' from Bin Laden to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, as being responsible for most of the evils. I can't wait till we begin to hear about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the sand dunes. These two always elude the American multi-trillian dollar defence establishment these sneaky Arabs must be very smart!
With that said, not a single news outlet had the ethics to report that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed a long time ago.Achkerov kute.Comment
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