Proof of Educational Dumbing Down.

[bell-the-cat]

Not that I disagree with you, but in all fairness, I doubt more than 5% of the childhood population actually went to school back then.

Education in Britain for children was compulsory then, as it is now. So 100% of children went to school. The difference then is that it only was compulsory until age 11. Beyond that children had to sit exams to proceed further with education. It was called the "11plus exam", and it lasted until the 1940s, I think. Then the age was changed to 14. Then in the 1960s (I think), it became 16. Which is where it is now (though some want to increase it to 18). What was it like for education ages in America, or the Soviet Union during this periond - I wonder. Anyone know?

Children who took that 11+ exam generally would eventually go to university, so I don't think more than 15 or 20 % of children would have sat it, and they would have been the most intelligent (probably the data is out on the web somewhere if someone wants to search for it).

And I knew where Ondurman was!
Fuzzy-wuzzy insurgents!! - interestingly that question would be today's equivalent of asking where Falluja is.

Steve

[bell-the-cat]

Okay, I checked the US Census Bureau site (which took a while - I hate that site) and according to them, these are the numbers:

In 1900, 10% of kids age 5-14 were enrolled in school, and 8% of 18-24 year-olds were high school graduates.

Only 10% - that is really really small, if it means only 10% of, say, 10 year olds. What did the rest do every day? Did they work?? Were most American's illiterate at that period - and if not, how did they learn to read! Or was there a sort of "Sunday school" that taught children at weekends if they worked weekdays

I suppose it's worth remembering that most of America in the year 1900 was still our equivalent of a third-world country.

[bell-the-cat]

I suppose it's worth remembering that most of America in the year 1900 was still our equivalent of a third-world country.

And some would argue that the average American is, intellectually, still at that same stage of development! (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one )

[jilbagh]

It is true that our education is plummeting down. When I lived in Oklahoma we couldn't pass the 5th grade unless we knew all 50 states and their capitals. That requirement was lifted because of the lack of education and the growing number of failures.

I hope to God my children are not as stupid as when I see these days. Scores are down, the level of difficulty is too low and our teachers are underpaid so they have no real motivation to help todays children succeed in becoming the leaders of tomorrow.

pathetic...didn't the US ranking in education and literacy go down?

[Ducati]

You are all missing the point. Compare a test for 11 year olds from then, to what 11 years olds get now..

Times change you'll live..

..This isn't about results or anything...

Yes it is..

It's like the Pilgrims who eventually became the founders of this nation, these were people versed in ancient Greek, Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and compare that to the politicians of the today.

Who cares, we have translators now use em!

[nunechka]

hello people, it doesnt matter what level of the population went to school then vs. now, the point of this thread is the DUMBING DOWN of the educational curriculum...

a good example is Armenia because it wasnt too long ago when everyone went to school, 99% and the education level was EXCELLENT...
when i was in the 1st and 2nd grade (i am 24 now) i was learning algebra... LOL! its so funny when i say that because it seems almost impossible... BUT its true... in 2nd grade our math consisted of word problems which addressed major multiplication formulas, of if train (A) leaves at 14:45 from Paris and train (B) leaves at 13:25 from Moscow etc... when i came to the US i was like THIS IS A CAKE WALK! HA HA HA! and then i took the SATs and LOL! that sh!t cracked me up... i was like WTF?

on to other subjects: literature, i was learning russian when i was in kindergarden... LOL! of course Armenian was #1, but i spoke RUSSIAN! and i wrote in russian and i read in russian...
geography: thats funny, i knew the capitals of most major countries, the distances between them, i knew what measurment system was used in the US and of course in Armenia, but most importantly i knew to convert them... i new who the president of the US was when i was in the 1st grade... LOL
most of my knolwedge of geography is from Armenian schools... and even then people tell me, "hey you know so much, why?" i dont know? when i was out with one of my friends one evening, she actually said Saudi Arabia is the the capital of Bangladesh... LOL! ohh man that was funny, she is 23 years old! LOL! that still gets my lauging when i am sober or drunk... LOL!!! she was serious people... what was even funnier was that we were out with my other friend who is from BANGLADESH! lol! ohh man we had a good laugh...

anony i was waiting for someone to produce this thread, thanks hun ...

loseyourname, most private schools including the armenian ones teach at a level MUCH high then public schools... so an 11 year old in private school in the 5th grade is learning what an 8-9th grader is learning in public school... in private schools childern learn more then 1 other language, children are given better books, better teachers teach, etc... so the curriculum level provided to a child at that age has nothing to do with the amount of people attending school in a city or viliage... it has to do with the aims of the governing body or the aims of the society...

BTW people who live in villiages in armenia are MUCH more educated then people living in some cities in the US...

[nunechka]

loseyourname, did you see the arithmatic portion??? an 11 yr old now CAN NOT DO THIS! what advancements have happened that have changed the words "Square root" ??? nothing it is still the same... the square root of 9 is still 3 and it will always be 3...

what about simplification??? all of the MATH that was produced/created was done before this century, there are no new forumals for basic math... new forumals for financial accting yes, but not basic math...

maybe history is something else to deal with... it is mroe and more every year... i can see that... but simple math, or what about language? or geography... it is one earth, many countries, thats not too hard... i can see that history and geography are connected, so why not teach geography along with history?

this article is creepy... and i am getting more and more pissed as i read it

[Anonymouse]

That is precisely my point. Loser is driving at an incredibly marginal and rather moot point which doesn't mean anything for the argument I am advancing. It is a tangent that shouldn't even be bothered with. The overall thrust of the matter is the obvious decline in standards.

[Anonymouse]

Times change you'll live..

Change is either for the good or the bad. No one is disputing change, just its direction.

Yes it is..

It isn't about results. You are driving at a point which wasn't part of the topic. It doesn't cater to how many students were enrolled then vs how many are enrolled now. That is a non-issue. The point was standards and depth of the education involved.

Who cares, we have translators now use em!

There is that saying that equates ones wisdom with the amount of language one speaks, not simply relying on (often times erroneous) online translations. My guess is Dukaka, if you put down that bad religion CD for a change, then just maybe you might have a mini renaissance in that rather mediocre brain of yours.

[loseyourname]

loseyourname, did you see the arithmatic portion??? an 11 yr old now CAN NOT DO THIS! what advancements have happened that have changed the words "Square root" ??? nothing it is still the same... the square root of 9 is still 3 and it will always be 3...

what about simplification??? all of the MATH that was produced/created was done before this century, there are no new forumals for basic math... new forumals for financial accting yes, but not basic math...

Well, all of these things can be done on a calculator. Of what use is your knowledge that the square root of 9 is 3? A much more useful tidbit of mathematical knowledge is the ability to perform operations using vector calculus, or encoding and decrypting using abstract algebra. Neither math was developed until the early 20th century.

I don't see what's so moot about my point. I can agree with you that the small number of 11 year-olds taking these tests were smarter than the bulk of 11 year-olds today, but frankly, that doesn't concern me. An 11 year-old doesn't perform any functions useful to society anyway. I'd be concerned if you could show me that the average 25 year-old today knows less than the average 25 year-old then, and I suspect that is not the case.

I have no argument with the point being made that elementary school education isn't what it used to be. I just don't see it as being much of a problem.