Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

[Sip]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

I am more than 'clever' than that, in my way, either/any way.

Well said.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

THAT is the 'fractal' armenianclub.com, universe. You don't get that, but some might.

Actually, considering most of the responses we have seen toward you, one has yet to "get" that.

I'm going to do photo/graphic art for a bit on Ankap. You seem to like and understand that.

Great! Within the proper thread and context anything is possible, even Anahita!

[Anahita]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

What is your point here? I seem to be as confused as ever again with your verbiage.

You do ask good questions, but do you ignore the answers?

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

People should NOT be afraid to speak. Being silent is a bad idea. Ignore your rights and they can go away.

I'll take you up on that ... much to the disappointment of everybody here. The whole thing about the boarders bit I just don't really get. I mean it's not like the world all of a sudden decided that staking out a section of land, be it with "lines" or natural barriers, was becoming really trendy and "Hell we should all follow suit!” Animals mark out territories and we do as well as an intrinsic and innate characteristic that humans share with all of the other animals. Seems to be a universal truth that every living organism will try to make part of the universe there own, and notably only for them. Look at the hermit crab.

Anyway I ask you a question Ani while you sip on a green or Chi tea, snuggle next to one of your overly and cruelly domesticated animals, read some nonfiction Bobo books and watch either the Lifetime or the Oxygen channel ... why do you think the world is the way it is? I think it is because our ulterior motives and primal urges have ultimately fabricated the world as we know it in a very subliminal, or to those with more intuition than others, moderately subliminal fashion. Territory is a really simple one and so are most of the others.

Ultimately my point is if we had to do it all over again we would create the same big 'ol mess that we created this time around. "You play how you practice" is what my band director used to always tell us. So despite our best intentions to be better than what we have pathetically become, we would do no better then we already have if given a second opportunity. Just to use your silly riddlesque speak ! Not as masterfully as you though, although I suppose the creator of the riddle always seems smarter than the person it's intended for.

Screw the Mexicans ... the "We work jobs Americans refuse to work" statement is CRAP. We would work those jobs if those companies followed federal guidelines for labor practices and didn't cheat workers out of wages and benefits. If they (read bastard American greedy ass employers) don't have to hire an honest American who will stand up for employee rights, and will refuse to work below the minimum wage standard then they won't.

"We work jobs Americans refuse to work"

BS we refuse to work at the hours and rates that Mexicans work at without receiving overtime, mandatory healthcare (depending on how many employees the company has), and a variety of other benefits. Americans had to work diligently to create new labor laws by electing officials that passed laws in congress, so when an immigrant worker comes to America and decides that it's ok to work in the manner they choose (rate & quantity of hours) instead of what is mandated by law they essentially piss on all the labor laws we worked really hard to create. Nod if you understand ...

Just because the numero uno country for having an open door policy is now following suit of other countries that are wanting to ACCURATELY control immigration doesn’t make us bad people. As a matter of fact is was only within the last like 50 or maybe 60 years that America has been so lax on our immigration policy. It was supposed t be a "gate" style system where every so often we would allow "x" immigrants into the US then close the gate, and then repeat every so often. In all of our Bobo, P.C., B.S. ways we adopted we "Just couldn't say no to a poor helpless REFF-YOU-GEEZZ!!" pffftttt Totally turned our country's immigration policy into a joke, which is the current state it's in now.

Here's a link or two for you Ani ... it's like a biography (that's nonfiction right?)

Bobos In Paradise

Bobo Back cover

[Anahita]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

I'll take you up on that ... much to the disappointment of everybody here. The whole thing about the boarders bit I just don't really get. I mean it's not like the world all of a sudden decided that staking out a section of land, be it with "lines" or natural barriers, was becoming really trendy and "Hell we should all follow suit!” Animals mark out territories and we do as well as an intrinsic and innate characteristic that humans share with all of the other animals. Seems to be a universal truth that every living organism will try to make part of the universe there own, and notably only for them. Look at the hermit crab.

Anyway I ask you a question Ani while you sip on a green or Chi tea, snuggle next to one of your overly and cruelly domesticated animals, read some nonfiction Bobo books and watch either the Lifetime or the Oxygen channel ... why do you think the world is the way it is? I think it is because our ulterior motives and primal urges have ultimately fabricated the world as we know it in a very subliminal, or to those with more intuition than others, moderately subliminal fashion. Territory is a really simple one and so are most of the others.

Ultimately my point is if we had to do it all over again we would create the same big 'ol mess that we created this time around. "You play how you practice" is what my band director used to always tell us. So despite our best intentions to be better than what we have pathetically become, we would do no better then we already have if given a second opportunity. Just to use your silly riddlesque speak ! Not as masterfully as you though, although I suppose the creator of the riddle always seems smarter than the person it's intended for.

Screw the Mexicans ... the "We work jobs Americans refuse to work" statement is CRAP. We would work those jobs if those companies followed federal guidelines for labor practices and didn't cheat workers out of wages and benefits. If they (read bastard American greedy ass employers) don't have to hire an honest American who will stand up for employee rights, and will refuse to work below the minimum wage standard then they won't.

"We work jobs Americans refuse to work"

BS we refuse to work at the hours and rates that Mexicans work at without receiving overtime, mandatory healthcare (depending on how many employees the company has), and a variety of other benefits. Americans had to work diligently to create new labor laws by electing officials that passed laws in congress, so when an immigrant worker comes to America and decides that it's ok to work in the manner they choose (rate & quantity of hours) instead of what is mandated by law they essentially piss on all the labor laws we worked really hard to create. Nod if you understand ...

Just because the numero uno country for having an open door policy is now following suit of other countries that are wanting to ACCURATELY control immigration doesn’t make us bad people. As a matter of fact is was only within the last like 50 or maybe 60 years that America has been so lax on our immigration policy. It was supposed t be a "gate" style system where every so often we would allow "x" immigrants into the US then close the gate, and then repeat every so often. In all of our Bobo, P.C., B.S. ways we adopted we "Just couldn't say no to a poor helpless REFF-YOU-GEEZZ!!" pffftttt Totally turned our country's immigration policy into a joke, which is the current state it's in now.

Here's a link or two for you Ani ... it's like a biography (that's nonfiction right?)

Bobos In Paradise

Bobo Back cover

Thank you, Lambboy. Again, I want to point out that I often view current actions/policies/beliefs/etc. in terms of the results and impacts those will have on future generations (often, many, many generations into the future.) I try to think, at least seven generations, into the future.

On the issue of lines (boundaries). Nature 'draws lines' less as overtly political. In a natural place (with little human impact), a forest meets a grassland and there is a blend between them. Many Humans like (?) definite categories. Nature doesn't mind ambiguity--ambiguity is very good sometimes.

Humans (mostly men who have ego issues) draw hard straight political lines (and that has many kinds of implications), even if the lines make no sense culturally… look at almost any country in Africa where colonialism ‘drew lines.’ Nature tends towards painting soft and blended curves.

I read the links you gave. I may even buy or borrow that book. Thanks.

[Anahita]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

Pictures and photos.

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

You're welcome Ani.

Please forgive as well as I can come off as an ass more times than not. Also forgive me for not being explicitly clear with my thoughts. I'm notoriously bad about dancing around the topic that I'm really trying to convey.

All I really meant was since we as humans in essence are overly self aware, and dangerously creative animals, we, like animals, have taken the primitive action of marking out territories way further than our other animal counterparts. All I really meant was unfortunately we are hard wired to think in a territorial manner and even if we were allowed to take it all back and start again we would still create the same miserable devices we already have today like territories/nations/territory lines. It is an intrinsic human quality I am afraid to say, and we will never be able to move past it ... or at least not in our lifetime.

To illustrate my point further (here I go with the dancing around my point again!) ... Regardless if you agree with how we got to the point where we find ourselves presently or not, I think we can all agree that we as a species have come a long way. Right? I mean we have come a LOONG way in terms of technology and in the way we view our world and ourselves. Still at the pinnacle of mans achievements when we get another human to actually walk on another floating rock in space (if you hold a disbelief in the moon landing don't worry ... for what's coming up next it's the thought that counts more than the actually reality of the event.)What do we immediately do right afterwards?? "Put a flag down of course silly! What do you think?!? We gotta let ppl know we were here first!" and, although not essentially, "This is ours!" See what I mean?? We came all that way to have a vulgar display of primitive ulterior motives come bubbling up to the surface like "HEY! Remember me?!?"

For the most part I agree with you on this topic. In all honesty I could argue either side but I lean slightly more towards the American worker. Countries chastise the U.S. for mucking about in other ppls business and that we shouldn't mess with other ppls cultures. Well imo when you come here and work for less than what we as a society feel you should earn then that's ultimately the same thing as disrespecting another country's culture. The opposite could never happen where we as Americans migrate to Mexico and demand higher wages and alter their culture. We can only get sucked down in terms a laborer life quality. Plus there are plenty of insanely evil Americans who treat the illegals so poorly that we have a moral and ethical responsibility to put an end to it, or at the very least not let the situation grow so insanely out of control as it is now.

Anyway I hope you like the book. I did. Being a Bobo isn't really all that bad. There are worse things. I think most ppl, and definitely the entire state of California, has a little Bobo in them!

I didn't proof so sorry

[Anonymouse]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

So when Mexico whines and complains for the United States to have compassion toward the millions of Mexicans who go north - the losers, the failures, the barely if at all literate, those with little to offer, uncultivated, uneducated, and of low intelligence - it often behaves the opposite of the way it demands others. Not included below is Mexico's iron protection of its border with Guatemala, but the below was what surprised me from our Cerveza drinking neighbor to the south.

Mexico Works to Bar Non-Natives From Jobs

By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer

MEXICO CITY - If
Arnold Schwarzenegger had migrated to Mexico instead of the United States, he couldn't be a governor. If Argentina native Sergio Villanueva, firefighter hero of the Sept. 11 attacks, had moved to Tecate instead of New York, he wouldn't have been allowed on the force.

Even as Mexico presses the United States to grant unrestricted citizenship to millions of undocumented Mexican migrants, its officials at times calling U.S. policies "xenophobic," Mexico places daunting limitations on anyone born outside its territory.

In the United States, only two posts — the presidency and vice presidency — are reserved for the native born.

In Mexico, non-natives are banned from those and thousands of other jobs, even if they are legal, naturalized citizens.

Foreign-born Mexicans can't hold seats in either house of the congress. They're also banned from state legislatures, the Supreme Court and all governorships. Many states ban foreign-born Mexicans from spots on town councils. And Mexico's Constitution reserves almost all federal posts, and any position in the military and merchant marine, for "native-born Mexicans."

Recently the Mexican government has gone even further. Since at least 2003, it has encouraged cities to ban non-natives from such local jobs as firefighters, police and judges.

Mexico's Interior Department — which recommended the bans as part of "model" city statutes it distributed to local officials — could cite no basis for extending the bans to local posts.

After being contacted by The Associated Press about the issue, officials changed the wording in two statutes to delete the "native-born" requirements, although they said the modifications had nothing to do with AP's inquiries.

"These statutes have been under review for some time, and they have, or are about to be, changed," said an Interior Department official, who was not authorized to be quoted by name.

But because the "model" statues are fill-in-the-blanks guides for framing local legislation, many cities across Mexico have already enacted such bans. They have done so even though foreigners constitute a tiny percentage of the population and pose little threat to Mexico's job market.

The foreign-born make up just 0.5 percent of Mexico's 105 million people, compared with about 13 percent in the United States, which has a total population of 299 million. Mexico grants citizenship to about 3,000 people a year, compared to the U.S. average of almost a half million.

"There is a need for a little more openness, both at the policy level and in business affairs," said David Kim, president of the Mexico-Korea Association, which represents the estimated 20,000 South Koreans in Mexico, many of them naturalized citizens.

"The immigration laws are very difficult ... and they put obstacles in the way that make it more difficult to compete," Kim said, although most foreigners don't come to Mexico seeking government posts.

J. Michael Waller, of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, was more blunt. "If American policy-makers are looking for legal models on which to base new laws restricting immigration and expelling foreign lawbreakers, they have a handy guide: the Mexican constitution," he said in a recent article on immigration.

Some Mexicans agree their country needs to change.

"This country needs to be more open," said Francisco Hidalgo, a 50-year-old video producer. "In part to modernize itself, and in part because of the contribution these (foreign-born) people could make."

Others express a more common view, a distrust of foreigners that academics say is rooted in Mexico's history of foreign invasions and the loss of territory in the 1847-48 Mexican-American War.

Speaking of the hundreds of thousands of Central Americans who enter Mexico each year, chauffeur Arnulfo Hernandez, 57, said: "The ones who want to reach the United States, we should send them up there. But the ones who want to stay here, it's usually for bad reasons, because they want to steal or do drugs."

Some say progress is being made. Mexico's president no longer is required to be at least a second-generation native-born. That law was changed in 1999 to clear the way for candidates who have one foreign-born parent, like President
Vicente Fox, whose mother is from Spain.

But the pace of change is slow. The state of Baja California still requires candidates for the state legislature to prove both their parents were native born.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060521/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_limiting_immigrants

[crusader1492]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

So when Mexico whines and complains for the United States to have compassion toward the millions of Mexicans who go north - the losers, the failures, the barely if at all literate, those with little to offer, uncultivated, uneducated, and of low intelligence - it often behaves the opposite of the way it demands others. Not included below is Mexico's iron protection of its border with Guatemala, but the below was what surprised me from our Cerveza drinking neighbor to the south.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060521/...ing_immigrants

Does this hipocracy really surprise you (it's a rhetorical question)?

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S.

Illegal immigration is an unavoidable part of the Capitalist mode of production since these people are cheap labor.

The world is not a borderless utopia

You are out of touch with reality. You are applying concepts that were in use a hundred years ago to the modern world (with regards to all these borders changes). Nationalism is a dying ideology and border changes an ostracized solution for modern problems. The Globalization will take more time than most think, but the path it is going down is undeniable and hard to stop. I think all of these things are obvious to the objective observer. It seems like you have some romantic sentiments for the older real politik, nation-state based system that is falling by the wayside. You shouldn't let that cloud your judgment of what is happening in front of us.

What you are unable to grasp is that it is due to very process of economic Globalization that borders become obsolete.

What an irony. The very system that you vigorously support is the one that brings down all the borders, encourages multiculturalism and diversity.