I am starting to like you guys...

[Anonymouse]

Another point comes to my mind.

This year I was in Little Armenia, here in Hollywood for the Genocide March and I did notice one peculiar behavior that was prevalent among the people there.

Everyone was out there, no doubt, to support our cause and garner public attention to it. However, as I interacted with friends and family, and people, I realized that many of them did not have a real knowledge of our culture to begin with, to realize what we had, what we lost, or who for that matter. Many just know that "Yea Turks killed us, and so we are here to protest it". Hell I remember one Armenian student during my high school years in class told the teacher, a day before April 24, that he won't be coming to class because it was a holiday. Do you realize how funny this sounds? Thank God I was there to correct him and tell the teacher "No this is a day where we mark the genocide of our people by the Turkish government". Do you realize that all the boy wanted was an excuse not to come to class, and then on April 24th cruise around with loud music in his car with tinted windows and Armenian flags hanging off of it? Is that what the genocide commemoration has turned into?

I do fear for us really.

[xBaron Dants]

Yeah, I know you were talking about the politicisation (is that a word?) of our cause, I was talking about another subject you had mentionned, where you said "will we die once the genocide is recognized" or something of the like. That's why I said that had we taught the younger generation other stuff about Armenia, the genocide wouldn't be our only link to the Motherland, and once we got recognition, we would still have links with our Motherland. Dunno if that's any clearer.

I also agree about the politicisation of the genocide, and I am against it as well. Recognition, an apology, a monument in Ankara honouring the armenian victims (and maybe Ararat) is what I want. There are people here who are only thinking of retribution and the billions of dollars, yevayln yevayln. I don't want this to turn into a "Holocaust Industry", though I want the truth to be known. At the same time, I don't want the genocide to be the ONLY thing that would put Armenia on the map.

[surferarmo]

Government or limited government, all the same to me really, as they are all a myth.

As far as our genocide, I believe we have come up to an interesting point and something really worth discussing. What would be the sociological, cultural, and political ramifications of a possible "acceptance" of the genocide. You are right in the sense that we have become no different than Jews in that regard, begging for votes and such and turning into a special interest group lobbying for this. We are taking the same road Jews took, notice. Will Armenianness lose importance? If we are fighting for this now, then what happens after we are done fighting for this? We just wither away? What then becomes the purpose of a culture such as this? You see, Zionism, as many Jews, rather Rabbies, have admitted, has thrived on anti-Semitism. In other words, the anti-Jewish sentiment throughout history in Europe, and then the Nazi regime legitimized and in fact created Jewish unity. Without that threat or sentiment, there would be no Jewish unity, and thus no Zionism. The same goes for Armenian unity and the hardship this people has endured throughout, and now the fight for the Genocide. Alot of myst clouds the future, and perhaps we won't know until we know when the time is right.

I know this wasnt the main point of your thread, but regaurdless, government is not a myth. How can it be? It is right here in front of you. We as humans have invented, and produced many things. They are not fake, neither is government. Government exists. What do you think ours is doing now. Who makes policy? A spirit, or congress?

To the Armenian genocide, I agree with you 100%...BUT, the genocide is still of importance and must be recognized for justice for Armenians in this day and age.

[surferarmo]

Baron, I agree with what you said in the first paragraph. The last part I couldn't really associate with.

As far as the genocide, too much of our fellow Armenian adults do cram it down our throats from an early age to have a traumatic effect. All too often its the "we were slaughtered by Turks", but they fail to tie in the cultural aspect or the ramifications it had.

A genocide is a genocide. There are many genocide. Treat them all the same. But a genocide that happens, doesn't just happen, it has ramifications so great that we can only begin to wonder, such as you mentioned, having our culture stolen from us.

However what I raised, and I believe surfer as well, is not so much what you touched upon, the fact that we have to teach our fellow Armenians more about how the genocide affected our culture and what we lost, as opposed to continuous horror stories that make an impression on impressionable minds, but rather how it has been politicized and turned into what surfer raised a special interest case, and I fear heading down the path that others have done before us, would have some very different repercussions. But alas only time will tell.

Exactly.

[surferarmo]

Yeah, I know you were talking about the politicisation (is that a word?) of our cause, I was talking about another subject you had mentionned, where you said "will we die once the genocide is recognized" or something of the like. That's why I said that had we taught the younger generation other stuff about Armenia, the genocide wouldn't be our only link to the Motherland, and once we got recognition, we would still have links with our Motherland. Dunno if that's any clearer.

I also agree about the politicisation of the genocide, and I am against it as well. Recognition, an apology, a monument in Ankara honouring the armenian victims (and maybe Ararat) is what I want. There are people here who are only thinking of retribution and the billions of dollars, yevayln yevayln. I don't want this to turn into a "Holocaust Industry", though I want the truth to be known. At the same time, I don't want the genocide to be the ONLY thing that would put Armenia on the map.

Baron, I totally agree.

[surferarmo]

A question has come to mind during this discussion. The genocide obviously has effects that brought our people to our condition in this present day. Our country is half the size, the most beautiful landscape, Mt. Ararat, that I have ever seen is no longer ours. Because of the genocide, Russia took over along with its communist regime which put strict restraints on Armenian culture and chained our economy to the ground. More and more Armenians moved into the diaspora leaving the population of our motherland in the lowest of the lows. The genocide is also the reason that most Armenians are proud to be Armenian.

With all this in mind, do you think if the genocide was recognized today, that it would spurn economical growth in our country? Would it spurn the growth of our culture in the diaspora? What could you both see happening?

[xBaron Dants]

A question has come to mind during this discussion. The genocide obviously has effects that brought our people to our condition in this present day. Our country is half the size, the most beautiful landscape, Mt. Ararat, that I have ever seen is no longer ours. Because of the genocide, Russia took over along with its communist regime which put strict restraints on Armenian culture and chained our economy to the ground. More and more Armenians moved into the diaspora leaving the population of our motherland in the lowest of the lows. The genocide is also the reason that most Armenians are proud to be Armenian.

With all this in mind, do you think if the genocide was recognized today, that it would spurn economical growth in our country? Would it spurn the growth of our culture in the diaspora? What could you both see happening?

Alright, you probably consider me as the greatest optimist when it comes to the future of Armenia, and I probably am. However, i am very sceptic when it comes to the Armenian Diaspora. I do not believe, or actually, I no longer believe that there will one day be mass repatriation and all Armenians will participate (even if they're still living out of Armenia) in the strenghtening of the Motherland. After the recognition of the genocide, there would probably be an economic growth, which would probably be caused by the fact that Turkey would've opened up its borders by then, creating new markets. Yes, there would be some action by the diaspora as soon as it occured, but I do not believe that it would last long, nor that it would be something big. Even if Turkey gave back all our ancestral homeland (Mush, Sasoon, Kars, Ardahan), a very small number of Armenians would move back.

And, the USSR did not chain our economy to the ground, it made us have an economy...I think this will start a whole new debate right there.

[surferarmo]

Yes it just did start a whole new line of debate. I will begin my attack tomorrow. Goodnight for now, have been up since 5 this morning.

[xBaron Dants]

Yes it just did start a whole new line of debate. I will begin my attack tomorrow. Goodnight for now, have been up since 5 this morning.

heh, bring it on you yankee! BRRRRRRRRING IT ON!!! :P

[surferarmo]

Yes it just did start a whole new line of debate. I will begin my attack tomorrow. Goodnight for now, have been up since 5 this morning.

heh, bring it on you yankee! BRRRRRRRRING IT ON!!! :P

LOL. Yankee. I am not a Yankee dear Baron. I am a Dogder.