Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Thank you Yeznik.

I have mainly read the Bible in Armenian (and Persian) so I don't get well certain biblical/ theological terms used here in English.
Can you tell me please how we call an "apologist" in Armenian? Havatatsyal (հաւատացեալ)??

I don't know if you were following my discussion with Hellektor in the Ottomans thread which turned into a 'theological' debate. Anyway, he just said the following: "Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history."
I was just a bit intrigued by that statement. Has Christ been recorded in historical archives or not? If so, where exactly?


If I'm not mistaken you as a Christian embrace comfortably both Old and New Testaments. Right? I would really like to know how you justify the 'drastic' change in the nature of God in the New Testament? How do you reconcile 'their' different natures?

Lucin, I spoke to one of my spiritual fathers regarding your questions and he suggested the following:

1.- the word apologist in Armenian is tchadakov.

2.- For the second question Absolutely: Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Philo, Josephus all make reference to the historical Jesus.

3.- For the third question, he recommended reading the Old and the New as one book and in whole and not partially. Some people try to figure out that God in the Old Testament is totally different one than of the New Testament. But when you read the Bible as a whole you will realize that that is not the case.

E.g. Read Psalm 51, the Book of Jonah, where it shows how God is merciful, but at the same time just.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Lucin, the meaning of the verse is to be void of material desires/possessions and to only desire Christ. For example there are the Desert Fathers who were considered the poor in spirit. Now there is a difference between being poor in spirit and being spiritually poor. In retrospect the most poorest (worldly) people in the world were considered the Desert Fathers who were basically hermits (jknavor) and monks who owned nothing, but the provided the some of the richest spiritual lessons.

The Creed in Armenian is the Havadamk.

Thank you Yeznik.

I have mainly read the Bible in Armenian (and Persian) so I don't get well certain biblical/ theological terms used here in English.
Can you tell me please how we call an "apologist" in Armenian? Havatatsyal (հաւատացեալ)??

I don't know if you were following my discussion with Hellektor in the Ottomans thread which turned into a 'theological' debate. Anyway, he just said the following: "Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history."
I was just a bit intrigued by that statement. Has Christ been recorded in historical archives or not? If so, where exactly?


If I'm not mistaken you as a Christian embrace comfortably both Old and New Testaments. Right? I would really like to know how you justify the 'drastic' change in the nature of God in the New Testament? How do you reconcile 'their' different natures?

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

After you created this thread, I started rereading the New Testament, and this time between the lines. I must say that by paying close attention to the apostles' rhetoric, the above 'assumption' of yours does sound plausible to me and it just made certain things more digestible for me but the problem I see here is that the book in question (the New Testament) is in essence a text with an anti-Semitic flavour, with that said, wouldn't such an effort by the apostles (doing certain modifications on the book to 'please' Jews and make them convert) be an utter stupidity because whatever you do, however you try to interpret it, some sort of anti-Jewish mark is still left there. Actually, it's just crammed with 'Jew-bashing' and 'anti-Semitic' discourse, so how can they be attracted to such a book and a 'being' known as Christ who is the reason for such a book ?



Now this quotation of the Christ that I don't understand and is a bit confusing; I have to say it in Armenian: "Երանի հոգով աղքատներին որովհետեւ նրանցն է երկնքի արքայութիւնը:"
So, why հոգով աղքատներին??? It just does not have a positive connotation for me. A person with a "աղքատ հոգի" sounds to me as a spiritually empty person, with no depth. Am I wrong? How do you understand this? What do you think?


And can you tell me please which is the Creed in Armenian?




Anti-Christ?

Lucin, the meaning of the verse is to be void of material desires/possessions and to only desire Christ. For example there are the Desert Fathers who were considered the poor in spirit. Now there is a difference between being poor in spirit and being spiritually poor. In retrospect the most poorest (worldly) people in the world were considered the Desert Fathers who were basically hermits (jknavor) and monks who owned nothing, but the provided the some of the richest spiritual lessons.

The Creed in Armenian is the Havadamk.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Intentions of the apostles

The apostles of Christ seem to have gone to great lengths to directly connect the risen Christ to Hebrew scripture within their writings. Perhaps this was done by the followers of Christ in order to convert J-ews at the time from their seemingly primitive and corrupt faith. The aforementioned is precisely the reason why there seem to be contrived attempts by the apostles connecting Christ to the Hebrew scriptures. Attempts such as making Christ sit on a donkey and enter Jerusalem, as prophesied in Hebrew scriptures, to convince the J-ews that Christ was indeed their long awaited Messiah. Unfortunately, our present day knowledge and understanding of Christ is primarily based upon these contrived attempts of the apostles. Nevertheless, the attempts of the apostles would prove to be a futile effort in the long run.

After you created this thread, I started rereading the New Testament, and this time between the lines. I must say that by paying close attention to the apostles' rhetoric, the above 'assumption' of yours does sound plausible to me and it just made certain things more digestible for me but the problem I see here is that the book in question (the New Testament) is in essence a text with an anti-Semitic flavour, with that said, wouldn't such an effort by the apostles (doing certain modifications on the book to 'please' Jews and make them convert) be an utter stupidity because whatever you do, however you try to interpret it, some sort of anti-Jewish mark is still left there. Actually, it's just crammed with 'Jew-bashing' and 'anti-Semitic' discourse, so how can they be attracted to such a book and a 'being' known as Christ who is the reason for such a book ?



Now this quotation of the Christ that I don't understand and is a bit confusing; I have to say it in Armenian: "Երանի հոգով աղքատներին որովհետեւ նրանցն է երկնքի արքայութիւնը:"
So, why հոգով աղքատներին??? It just does not have a positive connotation for me. A person with a "աղքատ հոգի" sounds to me as a spiritually empty person, with no depth. Am I wrong? How do you understand this? What do you think?


And can you tell me please which is the Creed in Armenian?

And as Star Wars, this thread about fiction and medieval, obscurantist phantasmagory...unless one is an "illuminati" - in the sense of lunatic, of course.

Anti-Christ?

[Siamanto]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Ah yes, Campbell, the man George Lucas accredited for the idea and concepts of Star Wars.

And as Star Wars, this thread about fiction and medieval, obscurantist phantasmagory...unless one is an "illuminati" - in the sense of lunatic, of course.

[Armanen]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ




Here's a map of the khazar kingdom at its height around 800.

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Armenian, pardon my ignorance, but I have a question - was the Caucasus a part of Khazaria?

As far as I know, only the northern slopes of the Caucasus is said to be a part of the Khazar kingdom. But I would not be surprised if at certain times their political/economic/cultural reach extended into the south Caucasus. Why do you ask? And why in this thread?

[North Pole]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Armenian, pardon my ignorance, but I have a question - was the Caucasus a part of Khazaria?

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Those who support the absurd and unnatural paradox that is called "Judeo-Christian" tradition are essentially one of the fundamental factors, the driving force, behind geopolitical events that are leading this world towards disaster.

Armenian

************************************************** **********

CHRISTIANS BRUTALIZED IN HOLY LAND

Some 200 Christian Zionist leaders, representing churches spread throughout America, Europe, Africa and Asia, gathered in Israelís Knesset to “beg forgiveness” for 2,000 years of “Christian persecution” of xxxs. The well publicized ceremony took place under the auspices of the “Knesset Christian Allies Caucus,” just one of a growing number of partnerships springing up in recent years between organized xxxish and Christian Zionist groups for the purpose of funneling Christian money and political support toward Israel. Part of the statement reads as follows: “On behalf of millions of Christians, we repent before you for crimes committed against the xxxish people throughout history in the name of Christianity.…We have sinned against God and against you.… To you we owe much.… Through you, God gave us the Holy Scriptures, and because of this we have a heritage, a destiny, a hope and a compass for living.…What a treasure you are in the sight of our God! You are His chosen and the apple of His eye.…”

But despite the fact that Israel was built (and continues to live) off of handouts from Christian countries—principally the U.S. and Germany—and for all the inherent groveling and breast-beating that this mea culpa was meant to convey, it obviously did not “cut the mustard” in improving Christian/xxxish relations in Israel, the birthplace of Jesus Christ and the 2,000-year-old religion created in His name. Besides the fact that Israel has now become a haven for international gangsters—meaning rampant prostitution, drugs, human trafficking and money laundering to name a few—there are other indicators surrounding Israel’s political and social character as well that show she is anything but friendly to the morals and precepts of Christian teachings. Christian churches that were not taxed are now being sent heavy bills. Media outlets featuring Christian programming on television and radio are having their license renewal applications rejected. More telling though is the fact that physical attacks on Christians, their symbols and institutions continue in Israel unabated, and not by “Islamo-fascists” (so much discussed by the likes of Norman Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes, John Hagee, Bill O’Reilly, et al.) but rather by a more fanatical sect that has nursed a hatred for Christianity since its inception, the people who collectively call themselves “the Israelites” and whom Christians are told to “bless.”

Pastor Hagee has been an avid supporter of the state Israel since his first visit there in 1978. “I went to Israel as a tourist and returned home a committed Zionist,” he said. His book says that Jesus did not come to Earth to be the Messiah. In what appears to be a growing trend these days, physical attacks on Christians, their churches and symbols are beginning to show a marked rise in Israel. For nearly a century, since the invasion of Palestine began, Christians of all denominations have suffered bombings, shootings, arsons and wanton acts of senseless destruction of their sacred properties—and all of it by a horde of Marxist/atheist invaders from Eastern Europe calling themselves “God’s chosen.” From the moment they arrived—announcing to the world “We’re baaaack” with all the fanfare that their grip over the Western media afforded them—they picked up where their alleged ancestors left off in attempting to erase the name of the hated Jesus from the Holy Land.

Mimicking the same kind of behavior their Bolshevik cousins exhibited during and after the takeover of Russia and using the “fog of war” as a smokescreen for their actions, Christian church properties have been bulldozed, blown up or burned down on numerous occasions, all of it chalked up to “collateral damage.” Since the xxxs of Europe began reconstructing the nation that was destroyed some 2,000 years ago following the predictions of Jesus Himself, priests, pastors, nuns, churches, cemeteries, Bibles, icons, stained-glass widows, all were all fair game as far as the Zionists were concerned when it came to maintaining its exclusively “xxxish character.” Not long after Israel declared her statehood, legislation was passed outlawing Christians trying to convert xxxs to the religion of Jesus Christ with a 5-year prison sentence attached for good measure. Now, no longer limited to impersonal attacks done in the middle of the night with minimal chance of being caught, xxxs (and particularly those in Jerusalem, the city of Jesus’s sham trial and murder by his enemies) are coming out in the open now and displaying their ancestral hatred for all things Christian without any evident fear of what kind of consequences might follow.

Out-in the-open physical attacks on priests, pastors, statues and Christian processions by extremist xxxs is now more the norm than the exception. A recent case involving a Greek Orthodox clergyman involved a skullcap-wearing elderly xxx tapping on the window of the clergyman’s car and when the man opened his window, the xxx spat in his face, something becoming a daily occurrence in Israel. Only a few days later, a yeshiva student spat at the cross as it was being carried by the Armenian archbishop during a procession near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem and did so under the watchful eye of his rabbi, who did nothing to impede him. In another recent case, 13 bishops from Austria were barred from praying at Jerusalem’s Western Wall by a rabbi who oversees the site. The Christians refused to remove the crosses around their necks, which the rabbi considered “insulting.” Other Christians who have seen the increasingly bold and violent nature on the part of Israel’s xxxs toward them and their faith in a manner up close and personal say that during xxxish religious festivals such as Purim (celebrating the hanging of Haman and the execution of 75,000 Persians) they stay inside and lock their doors, fearing their lives are in danger amid a band of rowdy, drunken and violent xxxish extremists.

One would think that, with all the lecturing taking place during the last half-century by organized xxxish groups when it comes to “hatred” and “intolerance” (not to mention the undeniable influence these groups have wielded in getting “hate crimes” legislation passed in most Christian countries), there would be more concern paid for this growing trend in the “headquarters” of xxxish values in the world—Israel. With all the fear-mongering to which Christians are subjected on a daily basis when it comes to Islam that is inaccurately portrayed as inherently anti-Christian by the likes of John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Joseph Farah and other neo-cons, you would expect some attention given to this alarming business taking place in Israel. And yet, not a peep from any of them. Attacks on Christians by xxxs Increasing in Israel, Palestine

Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...alized117.html

Related:

New Book Details Threat toWorld from Israeli Nukes

AFP correspondent Michael Collins Piper has just released the first book ever to address the danger the world faces from what he calls “the problem of Israel”—in particular, the existence of Israel’s huge arsenal of atomic weapons of mass destruction. Mike’s book—200 fact-filled pages, fully 30 dynamic chapters—is entitled The Golem—Israel’s Nuclear Hell Bomb and the Road to Global Armageddon. Where does the strange title of the book come from? What is a golem? Why in the world would Piper ever select a title like this? Actually, as you’ll see in a moment, the title is both appropriate and frighteningly profound.

You see, in xxxish lore, a distinguished rabbi magically conjured up out of clay from the earth a brutish creature—the golem—that the rabbi dispatched upon the world to vanquish the enemies of the xxxish people. According to the legend—which later inspired Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein—the Golem got out of control and proved even a threat to xxxish survival. In fact, a most real (and dangerous) golem exists on our planet today. Cast out of the element uranium, this Golem is—as Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, described it—Israel’s “sacred” nuclear weapon, the primary source of trouble in the precarious realm of atomic proliferation. The nuclear “golem” is the bizarre and dangerous cornerstone of Israel’s national security policy. Development of a nuclear arsenal was the foundation of Israeli policy from the beginning. In The Golem, Piper examines not only the fanatical nature of this nuclear policy, but also the ongoing danger of political and civil instability in Israel where anti-Christian and anti-Muslim forces are rising to power.

In Israel today the strange and frightening Talmud based legend of the golem remains a much-celebrated force in popular culture, inextricably linked to Israel’s national security mindset and thinking. There is even a popular cartoon strip, featuring a super hero known as “the golem,” who is said to have spawned when an Israeli was exposed to nuclear radiation from Israel’s officially “non-existent” nuclear weapons program. And now this “golem” is on the loose, defending Israel from its enemies. Piper’s new book is also a comprehensive overview of the role in which Israel and its lobby in America manipulated the United States into the disastrous no-win war in Iraq and how, even today—despite the recent National Intelligence Estimate which says that Iran abandoned its nuclear program in 2003—Israel and its lobby are still pushing the United States into a war against Iran. No review of this fantastic new work can do it justice. You need to read this—the one book that could help stop Israel from getting the United States—and the world—involved in a horrifying global holocaust.

Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm..._nukes118.html

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

The following video may or may not be related to this thread but it is definitely worth watching for it reveals the true character of Yahweh's very own "chosen" filth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF3UH...d-436981.html?

You scratch the surface of any self-respecting Jew and you will find the very same sentiments as expressed above. This is how they collectively are in their natural habitants. This is how they have always been, just read their ethnocentric fables - Torah, Tanakh, Talmud... Which brings up the following question: Which came first "antisemitism" or their vile bloodthirsty behavior? And these people are said to have been God's chosen? No. These people are nothing but earth bound demons serving their tribal god Yahweh/Jehovah. As Christ said: They are the brood of the Devil.

From the Gospel of Christ:

John 8: 39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing what your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Rev. 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are xxxs, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 3:9: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are xxxs, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.