Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Armenian, pardon my ignorance, but I have a question - was the Caucasus a part of Khazaria?

As far as I know, only the northern slopes of the Caucasus is said to be a part of the Khazar kingdom. But I would not be surprised if at certain times their political/economic/cultural reach extended into the south Caucasus. Why do you ask? And why in this thread?

[Armanen]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ




Here's a map of the khazar kingdom at its height around 800.

[Siamanto]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Ah yes, Campbell, the man George Lucas accredited for the idea and concepts of Star Wars.

And as Star Wars, this thread about fiction and medieval, obscurantist phantasmagory...unless one is an "illuminati" - in the sense of lunatic, of course.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Intentions of the apostles

The apostles of Christ seem to have gone to great lengths to directly connect the risen Christ to Hebrew scripture within their writings. Perhaps this was done by the followers of Christ in order to convert J-ews at the time from their seemingly primitive and corrupt faith. The aforementioned is precisely the reason why there seem to be contrived attempts by the apostles connecting Christ to the Hebrew scriptures. Attempts such as making Christ sit on a donkey and enter Jerusalem, as prophesied in Hebrew scriptures, to convince the J-ews that Christ was indeed their long awaited Messiah. Unfortunately, our present day knowledge and understanding of Christ is primarily based upon these contrived attempts of the apostles. Nevertheless, the attempts of the apostles would prove to be a futile effort in the long run.

After you created this thread, I started rereading the New Testament, and this time between the lines. I must say that by paying close attention to the apostles' rhetoric, the above 'assumption' of yours does sound plausible to me and it just made certain things more digestible for me but the problem I see here is that the book in question (the New Testament) is in essence a text with an anti-Semitic flavour, with that said, wouldn't such an effort by the apostles (doing certain modifications on the book to 'please' Jews and make them convert) be an utter stupidity because whatever you do, however you try to interpret it, some sort of anti-Jewish mark is still left there. Actually, it's just crammed with 'Jew-bashing' and 'anti-Semitic' discourse, so how can they be attracted to such a book and a 'being' known as Christ who is the reason for such a book ?



Now this quotation of the Christ that I don't understand and is a bit confusing; I have to say it in Armenian: "Երանի հոգով աղքատներին որովհետեւ նրանցն է երկնքի արքայութիւնը:"
So, why հոգով աղքատներին??? It just does not have a positive connotation for me. A person with a "աղքատ հոգի" sounds to me as a spiritually empty person, with no depth. Am I wrong? How do you understand this? What do you think?


And can you tell me please which is the Creed in Armenian?

And as Star Wars, this thread about fiction and medieval, obscurantist phantasmagory...unless one is an "illuminati" - in the sense of lunatic, of course.

Anti-Christ?

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

After you created this thread, I started rereading the New Testament, and this time between the lines. I must say that by paying close attention to the apostles' rhetoric, the above 'assumption' of yours does sound plausible to me and it just made certain things more digestible for me but the problem I see here is that the book in question (the New Testament) is in essence a text with an anti-Semitic flavour, with that said, wouldn't such an effort by the apostles (doing certain modifications on the book to 'please' Jews and make them convert) be an utter stupidity because whatever you do, however you try to interpret it, some sort of anti-Jewish mark is still left there. Actually, it's just crammed with 'Jew-bashing' and 'anti-Semitic' discourse, so how can they be attracted to such a book and a 'being' known as Christ who is the reason for such a book ?



Now this quotation of the Christ that I don't understand and is a bit confusing; I have to say it in Armenian: "Երանի հոգով աղքատներին որովհետեւ նրանցն է երկնքի արքայութիւնը:"
So, why հոգով աղքատներին??? It just does not have a positive connotation for me. A person with a "աղքատ հոգի" sounds to me as a spiritually empty person, with no depth. Am I wrong? How do you understand this? What do you think?


And can you tell me please which is the Creed in Armenian?




Anti-Christ?

Lucin, the meaning of the verse is to be void of material desires/possessions and to only desire Christ. For example there are the Desert Fathers who were considered the poor in spirit. Now there is a difference between being poor in spirit and being spiritually poor. In retrospect the most poorest (worldly) people in the world were considered the Desert Fathers who were basically hermits (jknavor) and monks who owned nothing, but the provided the some of the richest spiritual lessons.

The Creed in Armenian is the Havadamk.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Lucin, the meaning of the verse is to be void of material desires/possessions and to only desire Christ. For example there are the Desert Fathers who were considered the poor in spirit. Now there is a difference between being poor in spirit and being spiritually poor. In retrospect the most poorest (worldly) people in the world were considered the Desert Fathers who were basically hermits (jknavor) and monks who owned nothing, but the provided the some of the richest spiritual lessons.

The Creed in Armenian is the Havadamk.

Thank you Yeznik.

I have mainly read the Bible in Armenian (and Persian) so I don't get well certain biblical/ theological terms used here in English.
Can you tell me please how we call an "apologist" in Armenian? Havatatsyal (հաւատացեալ)??

I don't know if you were following my discussion with Hellektor in the Ottomans thread which turned into a 'theological' debate. Anyway, he just said the following: "Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history."
I was just a bit intrigued by that statement. Has Christ been recorded in historical archives or not? If so, where exactly?


If I'm not mistaken you as a Christian embrace comfortably both Old and New Testaments. Right? I would really like to know how you justify the 'drastic' change in the nature of God in the New Testament? How do you reconcile 'their' different natures?

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Thank you Yeznik.

I have mainly read the Bible in Armenian (and Persian) so I don't get well certain biblical/ theological terms used here in English.
Can you tell me please how we call an "apologist" in Armenian? Havatatsyal (հաւատացեալ)??

I don't know if you were following my discussion with Hellektor in the Ottomans thread which turned into a 'theological' debate. Anyway, he just said the following: "Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history."
I was just a bit intrigued by that statement. Has Christ been recorded in historical archives or not? If so, where exactly?


If I'm not mistaken you as a Christian embrace comfortably both Old and New Testaments. Right? I would really like to know how you justify the 'drastic' change in the nature of God in the New Testament? How do you reconcile 'their' different natures?

Lucin, I spoke to one of my spiritual fathers regarding your questions and he suggested the following:

1.- the word apologist in Armenian is tchadakov.

2.- For the second question Absolutely: Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Philo, Josephus all make reference to the historical Jesus.

3.- For the third question, he recommended reading the Old and the New as one book and in whole and not partially. Some people try to figure out that God in the Old Testament is totally different one than of the New Testament. But when you read the Bible as a whole you will realize that that is not the case.

E.g. Read Psalm 51, the Book of Jonah, where it shows how God is merciful, but at the same time just.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Yeznik thats what Im doing right now, I have started reading the Bible, I'm in Genesis but Im gonna go all the way I dont want to skip any part of it.

[Armanen]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

The old testament is for joos, pure and simple. I think one should read still read the old testament, especially Genesis but the core of Christian teachings comes from the New Testament and Zoroastrianism.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Lucin, I spoke to one of my spiritual fathers regarding your questions and he suggested the following:

Sorry to be a pain. Thanks Yeznik.

1.- the word apologist in Armenian is tchadakov.

2.- For the second question Absolutely: Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Philo, Josephus all make reference to the historical Jesus...

Interesting. I did a little research on these historians, there were both sources; confirming and refuting their writings. But I found interesting, the following excerpt in one of the articles on the historicity of Christ:

"If there were Christians in Rome in 41-49 AD, then that's a pretty strong indication that Jesus existed, since His life would have been well within the memories of those living at the time."