Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Yeznik, none of the verbal and rhetorical gymnastics you wrote has any bearing on the topic - namely, the non-Hebraic/Judaic nature and origin of Christ.

Regarding spiritual guidance: I feel as close to God with my understanding of Christ as you do with your understanding of Christ. When all is said and done isn't that the most important thing? Asking how this or that has gotten me close to God is a silly question. I would like you to debate theology with me and not attempt to become my spiritual counselor.

Regarding what the Rabbi said: Look at it this way. An Islamic nation someday becomes a global-power and succeeds in subjugating the Christians of the world. Thereafter, Islam takes our Gospels and for centuries gives the Gospels a serious "makeover" to prove that Christ was not God, to prove that Christ was not crucified, to prove that Mohammad was the last prophet of Allah, etc. What would we Christians do as a result - whine like J-ews. The aforementioned is essentially what we have done to Judaism. We have taken their sacred traditions and have done a complete "Yevro-remont" on them for centuries. You saying that unlike us Christians J-ews don't know their sacred traditions is utterly silly, it's absurd. Muslims think they know our Christian traditions better than us. They have even had countless Islamic scholars write countless pages on how erroneous the Christian faith is. Hindus have another take on the matter, J-ews another. The reality is that all can and do play this game of - I know better than you who God is. This is just a silly premise to base your arguments on.

You are not dealing with the main issue here - theology and how Christian theology is fundamentally different from that of Judaic theology. I am afraid you are stuck in a mode to prove your formula correct and you will refuse to consider any other theological formula/approach. I was also once like you. But gradually I began to see differently. I fought it at first. I was uncomfortable by it. Then I gradually learned to accept it. Now, the realization is an integral part of me. I will never look at the "Old Testament" and "Yahweh" in the same way. And, as I said earlier, I understand Christ better now than I ever have in the past.

I advise you to be open minded and start asking yourself serious questions. I know its difficult, it's like being told the father you thought you knew all your life is not really your father... Anyway, before you continue your debate I would like you to first seriously reconcile the following core elements within Christianity with Judaism and compare them to Zoroastrianism or other pagan traditions. Perhaps we can take it one at a time:

Dude, its Lutow, bustin yur chops.

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Dude, its Lutow, bustin yur chops.

Ay kez ban... I should have know I was dealing with a Christian zealot.

[Lucin]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Complaints about Christianity are primarily due to Semitic elements adopted within it.

The sacred scriptures of Islam and Judaism (and some aspects of Christianity, by the way of the so-called Judeo-Christian tradition) are essentially childish books comprised of dos and donts. These Semitic traditions are very dogmatic and narrow, as a result making the very notion of God narrow and inflexible as well. The deity of Islam and Judaism is confined to strict rules, a far cry from the nature of a universal creator God.

Yes. Notions auch as spirituality, divinity, depth and even love have very little place in Islam and Judaism. The scriptures of Islam and Judaism and their teachings are fundamentally based on many ridiculous, stricting and at times, inhuman laws and rules, laws which are ridiculing and undermining people's intelligence (հասկացողութիւն) in my opinion, and that leads me to quote this Campbell guy:

Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy.

I didn't know him but his quotes were interesting.

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

...and that leads me to quote this Campbell guy...

I first got to know of him, many-many years ago, when I saw his now famous six hour television interview in the United States with a well known American journalist and public commentator, William Moyers. The interview was called Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth. and is now considered to be one of the finest ever recorded. I think Campbell's humility, soft personality, intellectual demeanor and keen understanding of religions and human spirituality captivated a great many of his viewers. He died soon thereafter his interview and has since become a cult of personalities. At the time when I first saw the interview I did not make much of it, although interested I was still an adolescent, nevertheless certain themes, certain elements of his theosophies made a great impression in my mind. Gradually thereafter, I began to see spirituality and religions in a different light, in a more universal light. I set aside religious dogma, tribal divinities, and I began searching for answers. I have not yet found answers. Sadly, life always get in the way of the search. I don't know if I will ever find the answers I am looking for...

Campbell he has written many books as well, but I advise you to first see or read his Power of Myth interview:

Quotes from Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth--an Interview with Bill Moyers

CAMPBELL: People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think that what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive. That's what it's all finally about, and that's what these clues help us to find within ourselves.

Man should not be in the service of society, society should be in the service of man. When man is in the service of society, you have a monster state, and that's what is threatening the world at this minute. ...Certainly Star Wars has a valid mythological perspective. It shows the state as a machine and asks, "Is the machine going to crush humanity or serve humanity?" Humanity comes not from the machine but from the heart. What I see in Star Wars is the same problem that Faust gives us: Mephistopheles, the machine man, can provide us with all the means, and is thus likely to determine the aims of life as well. But of course the characteristic of Faust, which makes him eligible to be saved, is that he seeks aims that are not those of the machine. Now, when Luke Skywalker unmasks his father, he is taking off the machine role that the father has played. The father was the uniform. That is power, the state role.

I live with these myths, and they tell me this all the time. This is the problem that can be metaphorically understood as identifying with the Christ in you. The Christ in you doesn't die. The Christ in you survives death and resurrects. Or you can identify that with Shiva. I am Shiva-this is the great meditation of the yogis in the Himalayas...Heaven and hell are within us, and all the gods are within us. This is the great realization of the Upanishads of India in the ninth century B.C. All the gods, all the heavens, all the worlds, are within us. They are magnified dreams, and dreams are manifestations in image form of the energies of the body in conflict with each other. That is what myth is. Myth is a manifestation in symbolic images, in metaphorical images, of the energies of the organs of the body in conflict with each other.

MOYERS: So when we dream, we are fishing in some vast ocean of mythology that--

CAMPBELL: ...that goes down and down and down. You can get all mixed up with complexes, you know, things like that, but really, as the Polynesian saying goes, you are then "standing on a whale fishing for minnows." We are standing on a whale. The ground of being is the ground of our being, and when we simply turn outward, we see all of these little problems here and there. But, if we look inward, we see that we are the source of them all.

MOYERS: In the Christian story the serpent is the seducer.

CAMPBELL: That amounts to a refusal to affirm life. In the biblical tradition we have inherited, life is corrupt, and every natural impulse is sinful unless it has been circumcised or baptized. The serpent was the one who brought sin into the world. And the woman was the one who handed the apple to man. This identification of the woman with sin, of the serpent with sin, and thus of life with sin, is the twist that has been given to the whole story in the biblical myth and doctrine of the Fall.

MOYERS: Does the idea of woman as sinner appear in other mythologies?

CAMPBELL: No, I don't know of it elsewhere. The closest thing to it would be perhaps Pandora with Pandora's box, but that's not sin, that's just trouble. The idea in the biblical tradition of the Fall is that nature as we know it is corrupt, sex in itself is corrupt, and the female as the epitome of sex is a corrupter. ...The idea of the supernatural as being something over and above the natural is a killing idea. In the Middle Ages this was the idea that finally turned that world into something like a wasteland, a land where people were living inauthentic lives, never doing a thing they truly wanted to because the supernatural laws required them to live as directed by their clergy. In a wasteland, people are fulfilling purposes that are not properly theirs but have been put upon them as inescapable laws. This is a killer. The twelfth-century troubadour poetry of courtly love was a protest against this supernaturally justified violation of life's joy in truth. So too the Tristan legend and at least one of the great versions of the legend of the Grail, that of Wolfram von Eschenbach.

The spirit is really the bouquet of life. It is not something breathed into life, it comes out of life. This is one of the glorious things about the mother-goddess religions, where the world is the body of the Goddess, divine in itself, and divinity isn't something ruling over and above a fallen nature. There was something of this spirit in the medieval cult of the Virgin, out of which all the beautiful thirteenth-century French cathedrals arose.However, our story of the Fall in the Garden sees nature as corrupt; and that myth corrupts the whole world for us. Because nature is thought of as corrupt, every spontaneous act is sinful and must not be yielded to. You get a totally different civilization and a totally different way of living according to whether your myth presents nature as fallen or whether nature is in itself a manifestation of divinity, and the spirit is the revelation of the divinity that is inherent in nature.

CAMPBELL: Remember the last line [of Babbitt]? "I have never done the thing that I wanted to in all my life." That is a man who never followed his bliss. Well, I actually heard that line when I was teaching at Sarah Lawrence. Before I was married, I used to eat out in the restaurants of town for my lunch and dinners. Thursday night was the maid's night off in Bronxville, so that many of the families were out in restaurants. One fine evening I was in my favorite restaurant there, and at the next table there was a father, a mother, and a scrawny boy about twelve years old. The father said to the boy, "Drink your tomato juice."And the boy said, "I don't want to." Then the father, with a louder voice, said, "Drink your tomato juice." And the mother said, "Don't make him do what he doesn't want to do." The father looked at her and said, "He can't go through life doing what he wants to do. If he does only what he wants to do, he'll be dead. Look at me. I've never done a thing I wanted to in all my life."And I thought, "My God, there's Babbitt incarnate!" That's the man who never followed his bliss. You may have a success in life, but then just think of it-what kind of life was it? What good was it-you've never done the thing you wanted to do in all your life. I always tell my students, go where your body and soul want to go. When you have the feeling, then stay with it, and don't let anyone throw you off.

MOYERS: What happens when you follow your bliss?

CAMPBELL: You come to bliss. In these stories, the adventure that the hero is ready for is the one he gets. The adventure is symbolically a manifestation of his character. Even the landscape and the conditions of the environment match his readiness.

CAMPBELL: Darth Vader has not developed his own humanity. He's a robot. He's a bureaucrat, living not in terms of himself but in terms of an imposed system. This is the threat to our lives that we all face today. Is the system going to flatten you out and deny you your humanity, or are you going to be able to make use of the system to the attainment of human purposes? How do you relate to the system so that you are not compulsively serving it? It doesn't help to try to change it to accord with your system of thought. The momentum of history behind it is too great for anything really significant to evolve from that kind of action. The thing to do is learn to live in your period of history as a human being. That's something else, and it can be done.

MOYERS: By doing what?

CAMPBELL: By holding to your own ideals for yourself and, like Luke Skywalker, rejecting the system's impersonal claims upon you...When Ben Kenobi says, "May the Force be with you," he's speaking of the power and energy of life, not of programmed political intentions. The moral, I suppose, would be that the first requirements for a heroic career are the knightly virtues of loyalty, temperance, and courage. The loyalty in this case is of two degrees or commitments: first, to the chosen adventure, but then, also, to the ideals of the order of knighthood.

Now, this second commitment seems to put Gawain's way in opposition to the way of the Buddha, who when ordered by the Lord of Duty to perform the social duties proper to his caste, simply ignored the command, and that night achieved illumination as well as release from rebirth. Gawain is a European and, like Odysseus, who remained true to the earth and returned from the Island of the Sun to his marriage with Penelope, he has accepted, as the commitment of his life, not release from but loyalty to the values of life in this world. And yet, as we have just seen, whether following the middle way of the Buddha or the middle way of Gawain, the passage to fulfillment lies between the perils of desire and fear.

The influence of a vital person vitalizes, there's no doubt about it. The world without spirit is a wasteland. People have the notion of saving the world by shifting things around, changing the rules, and who's on top, and so forth. No, no! Any world is a valid world if it's alive. The thing to do is to bring life to it, and the only way to do that is to find in your own case where the life is and become alive yourself.

We are having experiences all the time which may on occasion render some sense of this, a little intuition of where your bliss is. Grab it. No one can tell you what it is going to be. You have to learn to recognize your own depth.All the time. It is miraculous. I even have a superstition that has grown on me as the result of invisible hands coming all the time-namely, that if you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. When you can see that, you begin to meet people who are in the field of your bliss, and they open the doors to you. I say, follow your bliss and don't be afraid, and doors will open where you didn't know they were going to be.

[Yeznik]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Ah yes, Campbell, the man George Lucas accredited for the idea and concepts of Star Wars.

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Ah yes, Campbell, the man George Lucas accredited for the idea and concepts of Star Wars.

And....?

Star Wars is modern folklore, a contemporary myth, more-or-less based upon humanity's experiences on earth. As a typical zealot you are only concerned with assassination as a means to silence your opposition. You are referring to one of the greatest mind of the twentieth century. You should familiarize yourself with his publications: http://www.wisdom-books.com/Author.a...eferrer=Google

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Another historic figure that I consider to be one of the forerunners of Christ was the Greek mystic/philosopher/scientist Pythagoras.

Armenian

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Pythagoras & Theano
Apostles & Prophets of the Great Life

"Pythagoras . . . had himself initiated into the rites and mysteries not only of Greece, but also of foreign countries . . . he learned Egyptian . . . journeyed among the Chaldeans and the Magi'' (Diogenes Laertius, Life of Pythagoras, I, 1).

Clement of Alexandria declares that Pythagoras was a pupil of Zoroaster and a disciple of the Brahmanas [India] (Clement of Alexandria, Misc., I, xv).

Hippolytus states that "Pythagoras came to Zaratus the Chaldean, who explained to him that there are two original causes of things . . . two daemons, the one celestial, the other terrestrial'' (Hippolytus, Refutation, I, ii).

A passage in Herodotus proves that even in 450 B.C.E. it was well known that the Orphic-Bacchic mystery was also Pythagorean and that its funerary customs were Egyptian (Herodotus, Persian War, II, p. 81).

Pythagoras, and his wife Theano, were great Prophetic ones sent to earth to teach the hidden doctrine. Pythagoras of Samos was born about 569 BC in Samos, Ionia and died about 475 BC. The beliefs that Pythagoras held were:

* (1) that at its deepest level, reality is mathematical in nature,
* (2) that philosophy can be used for spiritual purification,
* (3) that the soul can rise to union with the divine,
* (4) that certain symbols have a mystical significance, and
* (5) that all brothers of the order should observe strict loyalty and secrecy.

J J O'Connor and E F Robertson write:

"Pythagoras of Samos is often described as the first pure mathematician. He is an extremely important figure in the development of mathematics yet we know relatively little about his mathematical achievements. Unlike many later Greek mathematicians, where at least we have some of the books which they wrote, we have nothing of Pythagoras's writings. The society which he led, half religious and half scientific, followed a code of secrecy which certainly means that today Pythagoras is a mysterious figure. We do have details of Pythagoras's life from early biographies which use important original sources yet are written by authors who attribute divine powers to him, and whose aim was to present him as a god-like figure. What we present below is an attempt to collect together the most reliable sources to reconstruct an account of Pythagoras's life. There is fairly good agreement on the main events of his life but most of the dates are disputed with different scholars giving dates which differ by 20 years. Some historians treat all this information as merely legends but, even if the reader treats it in this way, being such an early record it is of historical importance.

Pythagoras's father was Mnesarchus, while his mother was Pythais and she was a native of Samos. Mnesarchus was a merchant who came from Tyre, and there is a story that he brought corn to Samos at a time of famine and was granted citizenship of Samos as a mark of gratitude. As a child Pythagoras spent his early years in Samos but travelled widely with his father. There are accounts of Mnesarchus returning to Tyre with Pythagoras and that he was taught there by the Chaldaeans and the learned men of Syria. It seems that he also visited Italy with his father. Little is known of Pythagoras's childhood. All accounts of his physical appearance are likely to be fictitious except the description of a striking birthmark which Pythagoras had on his thigh. It is probable that he had two brothers although some sources say that he had three. Certainly he was well educated, learning to play the lyre, learning poetry and to recite Homer. There were, among his teachers, three philosophers who were to influence Pythagoras while he was a young man. One of the most important was Pherekydes who many describe as the teacher of Pythagoras.

The other two philosophers who were to influence Pythagoras, and to introduce him to mathematical ideas, were Thales and his pupil Anaximander who both lived on Miletus. In [8] it is said that Pythagoras visited Thales in Miletus when he was between 18 and 20 years old. By this time Thales was an old man and, although he created a strong impression on Pythagoras, he probably did not teach him a great deal. However he did contribute to Pythagoras's interest in mathematics and astronomy, and advised him to travel to Egypt to learn more of these subjects. Thales's pupil, Anaximander, lectured on Miletus and Pythagoras attended these lectures. Anaximander certainly was interested in geometry and cosmology and many of his ideas would influence Pythagoras's own views. In about 535 BC Pythagoras went to Egypt. This happened a few years after the tyrant Polycrates seized control of the city of Samos. There is some evidence to suggest that Pythagoras and Polycrates were friendly at first and it is claimed that Pythagoras went to Egypt with a letter of introduction written by Polycrates. In fact Polycrates had an alliance with Egypt and there were therefore strong links between Samos and Egypt at this time. The accounts of Pythagoras's time in Egypt suggest that he visited many of the temples and took part in many discussions with the priests. According to Porphyry Pythagoras was refused admission to all the temples except the one at Diospolis where he was accepted into the priesthood after completing the rites necessary for admission.

It is not difficult to relate many of Pythagoras's beliefs, ones he would later impose on the society that he set up in Italy, to the customs that he came across in Egypt. For example the secrecy of the Egyptian priests, their refusal to eat beans, their refusal to wear even cloths made from animal skins, and their striving for purity were all customs that Pythagoras would later adopt. Porphyry in and says that Pythagoras learnt geometry from the Egyptians but it is likely that he was already acquainted with geometry, certainly after teachings from Thales and Anaximander. In 525 BC Cambyses II, the king of Persia, invaded Egypt. Polycrates abandoned his alliance with Egypt and sent 40 ships to join the Persian fleet against the Egyptians. After Cambyses had won the Battle of Pelusium in the Nile Delta and had captured Heliopolis and Memphis, Egyptian resistance collapsed. Pythagoras was taken prisoner and taken to Babylon. Iamblichus writes that Pythagoras (see [8]): ... was transported by the followers of Cambyses as a prisoner of war. Whilst he was there he gladly associated with the Magoi ... and was instructed in their sacred rites and learnt about a very mystical worship of the gods. He also reached the acme of perfection in arithmetic and music and the other mathematical sciences taught by the Babylonians...

In about 520 BC Pythagoras left Babylon and returned to Samos. lycrates had been killed in about 522 BC and Cambyses died in the summer of 522 BC, either by committing suicide or as the result of an accident. The deaths of these rulers may have been a factor in Pythagoras's return to Samos but it is nowhere explained how Pythagoras obtained his freedom. Darius of Persia had taken control of Samos after Polycrates' death and he would have controlled the island on Pythagoras's return. This conflicts with the accounts of Porphyry and Diogenes Laertius who state that Polycrates was still in control of Samos when Pythagoras returned there. Pythagoras made a journey to Crete shortly after his return to Samos to study the system of laws there. Back in Samos he founded a school which was called the semicircle. Iamblichus [8] writes in the third century AD that:-

... he formed a school in the city [of Samos], the 'semicircle' of Pythagoras, which is known by that name even today, in which the Samians hold political meetings. They do this because they think one should discuss questions about goodness, justice and expediency in this place which was founded by the man who made all these subjects his business. Outside the city he made a cave the private site of his own philosophical teaching, spending most of the night and daytime there and doing research into the uses of mathematics... Pythagoras left Samos and went to southern Italy in about 518 BC (some say much earlier). Iamblichus gives some reasons for him leaving. First he comments on the Samian response to his teaching methods: ... he tried to use his symbolic method of teaching which was similar in all respects to the lessons he had learnt in Egypt. The Samians were not very keen on this method and treated him in a rude and improper manner. This was, according to Iamblichus, used in part as an excuse for Pythagoras to leave Samos:-

... Pythagoras was dragged into all sorts of diplomatic missions by his fellow citizens and forced to participate in public affairs. ... He knew that all the philosophers before him had ended their days on foreign soil so he decided to escape all political responsibility, alleging as his excuse, according to some sources, the contempt the Samians had for his teaching method. Pythagoras founded a philosophical and religious school in Croton (now Crotone, on the east of the heal of southern Italy) that had many followers. Pythagoras was the head of the society with an inner circle of followers known as mathematikoi. The mathematikoi lived permanently with the Society, had no personal possessions and were vegetarians. They were taught by Pythagoras himself and obeyed strict rules. The beliefs that Pythagoras held were:-

* (1) that at its deepest level, reality is mathematical in nature,
* (2) that philosophy can be used for spiritual purification,
* (3) that the soul can rise to union with the divine,
* (4) that certain symbols have a mystical significance, and
* (5) that all brothers of the order should observe strict loyalty and secrecy.

Both men and women were permitted to become members of the Society, in fact several later women Pythagoreans became famous philosophers. The outer circle of the Society were known as the akousmatics and they lived in their own houses, only coming to the Society during the day. They were allowed their own possessions and were not required to be vegetarians. Of Pythagoras's actual work nothing is known. His school practised secrecy and communalism making it hard to distinguish between the work of Pythagoras and that of his followers. Certainly his school made outstanding contributions to mathematics, and it is possible to be fairly certain about some of Pythagoras's mathematical contributions. First we should be clear in what sense Pythagoras and the mathematikoi were studying mathematics. They were not acting as a mathematics research group does in a modern university or other institution. There were no 'open problems' for them to solve, and they were not in any sense interested in trying to formulate or solve mathematical problems.

Rather Pythagoras was interested in the principles of mathematics, the concept of number, the concept of a triangle or other mathematical figure and the abstract idea of a proof. As Brumbaugh writes in [3]:-

It is hard for us today, familiar as we are with pure mathematical abstraction and with the mental act of generalisation, to appreciate the originality of this Pythagorean contribution. In fact today we have become so mathematically sophisticated that we fail even to recognise 2 as an abstract quantity. There is a remarkable step from 2 ships + 2 ships = 4 ships, to the abstract result 2 + 2 = 4, which applies not only to ships but to pens, people, houses etc. There is another step to see that the abstract notion of 2 is itself a thing, in some sense every bit as real as a ship or a house. Pythagoras believed that all relations could be reduced to number relations. As Aristotle wrote:-

The Pythagorean ... having been brought up in the study of mathematics, thought that things are numbers ... and that the whole cosmos is a scale and a number. This generalisation stemmed from Pythagoras's observations in music, mathematics and astronomy. Pythagoras noticed that vibrating strings produce harmonious tones when the ratios of the lengths of the strings are whole numbers, and that these ratios could be extended to other instruments. In fact Pythagoras made remarkable contributions to the mathematical theory of music. He was a fine musician, playing the lyre, and he used music as a means to help those who were ill. Pythagoras studied properties of numbers which would be familiar to mathematicians today, such as even and odd numbers, triangular numbers, perfect numbers etc. However to Pythagoras numbers had personalities which we hardly recognise as mathematics today:

Each number had its own personality - masculine or feminine, perfect or incomplete, beautiful or ugly. This feeling modern mathematics has deliberately eliminated, but we still find overtones of it in fiction and poetry. Ten was the very best number: it contained in itself the first four integers - one, two, three, and four [1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10] - and these written in dot notation formed a perfect triangle. Of course today we particularly remember Pythagoras for his famous geometry theorem. Although the theorem, now known as Pythagoras's theorem, was known to the Babylonians 1000 years earlier he may have been the first to prove it. Proclus, the last major Greek philosopher, who lived around 450 AD wrote):-

After [Thales, etc.] Pythagoras transformed the study of geometry into a liberal education, examining the principles of the science from the beginning and probing the theorems in an immaterial and intellectual manner: he it was who discovered the theory of irrational and the construction of the cosmic figures. Again Proclus, writing of geometry, said:-

I emulate the Pythagoreans who even had a conventional phrase to express what I mean "a figure and a platform, not a figure and a sixpence", by which they implied that the geometry which is deserving of study is that which, at each new theorem, sets up a platform to ascend by, and lifts the soul on high instead of allowing it to go down among the sensible objects and so become subservient to the common needs of this mortal life. Heath [7] gives a list of theorems attributed to Pythagoras, or rather more generally to the Pythagoreans.

[...]

Source: http://essenes.net/pythag.html

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

The following video may or may not be related to this thread but it is definitely worth watching for it reveals the true character of Yahweh's very own "chosen" filth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF3UH...d-436981.html?

You scratch the surface of any self-respecting Jew and you will find the very same sentiments as expressed above. This is how they collectively are in their natural habitants. This is how they have always been, just read their ethnocentric fables - Torah, Tanakh, Talmud... Which brings up the following question: Which came first "antisemitism" or their vile bloodthirsty behavior? And these people are said to have been God's chosen? No. These people are nothing but earth bound demons serving their tribal god Yahweh/Jehovah. As Christ said: They are the brood of the Devil.

From the Gospel of Christ:

John 8: 39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing what your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Rev. 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are xxxs, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 3:9: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are xxxs, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

[Armenian]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Those who support the absurd and unnatural paradox that is called "Judeo-Christian" tradition are essentially one of the fundamental factors, the driving force, behind geopolitical events that are leading this world towards disaster.

Armenian

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CHRISTIANS BRUTALIZED IN HOLY LAND

Some 200 Christian Zionist leaders, representing churches spread throughout America, Europe, Africa and Asia, gathered in Israelís Knesset to “beg forgiveness” for 2,000 years of “Christian persecution” of xxxs. The well publicized ceremony took place under the auspices of the “Knesset Christian Allies Caucus,” just one of a growing number of partnerships springing up in recent years between organized xxxish and Christian Zionist groups for the purpose of funneling Christian money and political support toward Israel. Part of the statement reads as follows: “On behalf of millions of Christians, we repent before you for crimes committed against the xxxish people throughout history in the name of Christianity.…We have sinned against God and against you.… To you we owe much.… Through you, God gave us the Holy Scriptures, and because of this we have a heritage, a destiny, a hope and a compass for living.…What a treasure you are in the sight of our God! You are His chosen and the apple of His eye.…”

But despite the fact that Israel was built (and continues to live) off of handouts from Christian countries—principally the U.S. and Germany—and for all the inherent groveling and breast-beating that this mea culpa was meant to convey, it obviously did not “cut the mustard” in improving Christian/xxxish relations in Israel, the birthplace of Jesus Christ and the 2,000-year-old religion created in His name. Besides the fact that Israel has now become a haven for international gangsters—meaning rampant prostitution, drugs, human trafficking and money laundering to name a few—there are other indicators surrounding Israel’s political and social character as well that show she is anything but friendly to the morals and precepts of Christian teachings. Christian churches that were not taxed are now being sent heavy bills. Media outlets featuring Christian programming on television and radio are having their license renewal applications rejected. More telling though is the fact that physical attacks on Christians, their symbols and institutions continue in Israel unabated, and not by “Islamo-fascists” (so much discussed by the likes of Norman Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes, John Hagee, Bill O’Reilly, et al.) but rather by a more fanatical sect that has nursed a hatred for Christianity since its inception, the people who collectively call themselves “the Israelites” and whom Christians are told to “bless.”

Pastor Hagee has been an avid supporter of the state Israel since his first visit there in 1978. “I went to Israel as a tourist and returned home a committed Zionist,” he said. His book says that Jesus did not come to Earth to be the Messiah. In what appears to be a growing trend these days, physical attacks on Christians, their churches and symbols are beginning to show a marked rise in Israel. For nearly a century, since the invasion of Palestine began, Christians of all denominations have suffered bombings, shootings, arsons and wanton acts of senseless destruction of their sacred properties—and all of it by a horde of Marxist/atheist invaders from Eastern Europe calling themselves “God’s chosen.” From the moment they arrived—announcing to the world “We’re baaaack” with all the fanfare that their grip over the Western media afforded them—they picked up where their alleged ancestors left off in attempting to erase the name of the hated Jesus from the Holy Land.

Mimicking the same kind of behavior their Bolshevik cousins exhibited during and after the takeover of Russia and using the “fog of war” as a smokescreen for their actions, Christian church properties have been bulldozed, blown up or burned down on numerous occasions, all of it chalked up to “collateral damage.” Since the xxxs of Europe began reconstructing the nation that was destroyed some 2,000 years ago following the predictions of Jesus Himself, priests, pastors, nuns, churches, cemeteries, Bibles, icons, stained-glass widows, all were all fair game as far as the Zionists were concerned when it came to maintaining its exclusively “xxxish character.” Not long after Israel declared her statehood, legislation was passed outlawing Christians trying to convert xxxs to the religion of Jesus Christ with a 5-year prison sentence attached for good measure. Now, no longer limited to impersonal attacks done in the middle of the night with minimal chance of being caught, xxxs (and particularly those in Jerusalem, the city of Jesus’s sham trial and murder by his enemies) are coming out in the open now and displaying their ancestral hatred for all things Christian without any evident fear of what kind of consequences might follow.

Out-in the-open physical attacks on priests, pastors, statues and Christian processions by extremist xxxs is now more the norm than the exception. A recent case involving a Greek Orthodox clergyman involved a skullcap-wearing elderly xxx tapping on the window of the clergyman’s car and when the man opened his window, the xxx spat in his face, something becoming a daily occurrence in Israel. Only a few days later, a yeshiva student spat at the cross as it was being carried by the Armenian archbishop during a procession near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem and did so under the watchful eye of his rabbi, who did nothing to impede him. In another recent case, 13 bishops from Austria were barred from praying at Jerusalem’s Western Wall by a rabbi who oversees the site. The Christians refused to remove the crosses around their necks, which the rabbi considered “insulting.” Other Christians who have seen the increasingly bold and violent nature on the part of Israel’s xxxs toward them and their faith in a manner up close and personal say that during xxxish religious festivals such as Purim (celebrating the hanging of Haman and the execution of 75,000 Persians) they stay inside and lock their doors, fearing their lives are in danger amid a band of rowdy, drunken and violent xxxish extremists.

One would think that, with all the lecturing taking place during the last half-century by organized xxxish groups when it comes to “hatred” and “intolerance” (not to mention the undeniable influence these groups have wielded in getting “hate crimes” legislation passed in most Christian countries), there would be more concern paid for this growing trend in the “headquarters” of xxxish values in the world—Israel. With all the fear-mongering to which Christians are subjected on a daily basis when it comes to Islam that is inaccurately portrayed as inherently anti-Christian by the likes of John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Joseph Farah and other neo-cons, you would expect some attention given to this alarming business taking place in Israel. And yet, not a peep from any of them. Attacks on Christians by xxxs Increasing in Israel, Palestine

Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...alized117.html

Related:

New Book Details Threat toWorld from Israeli Nukes

AFP correspondent Michael Collins Piper has just released the first book ever to address the danger the world faces from what he calls “the problem of Israel”—in particular, the existence of Israel’s huge arsenal of atomic weapons of mass destruction. Mike’s book—200 fact-filled pages, fully 30 dynamic chapters—is entitled The Golem—Israel’s Nuclear Hell Bomb and the Road to Global Armageddon. Where does the strange title of the book come from? What is a golem? Why in the world would Piper ever select a title like this? Actually, as you’ll see in a moment, the title is both appropriate and frighteningly profound.

You see, in xxxish lore, a distinguished rabbi magically conjured up out of clay from the earth a brutish creature—the golem—that the rabbi dispatched upon the world to vanquish the enemies of the xxxish people. According to the legend—which later inspired Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein—the Golem got out of control and proved even a threat to xxxish survival. In fact, a most real (and dangerous) golem exists on our planet today. Cast out of the element uranium, this Golem is—as Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, described it—Israel’s “sacred” nuclear weapon, the primary source of trouble in the precarious realm of atomic proliferation. The nuclear “golem” is the bizarre and dangerous cornerstone of Israel’s national security policy. Development of a nuclear arsenal was the foundation of Israeli policy from the beginning. In The Golem, Piper examines not only the fanatical nature of this nuclear policy, but also the ongoing danger of political and civil instability in Israel where anti-Christian and anti-Muslim forces are rising to power.

In Israel today the strange and frightening Talmud based legend of the golem remains a much-celebrated force in popular culture, inextricably linked to Israel’s national security mindset and thinking. There is even a popular cartoon strip, featuring a super hero known as “the golem,” who is said to have spawned when an Israeli was exposed to nuclear radiation from Israel’s officially “non-existent” nuclear weapons program. And now this “golem” is on the loose, defending Israel from its enemies. Piper’s new book is also a comprehensive overview of the role in which Israel and its lobby in America manipulated the United States into the disastrous no-win war in Iraq and how, even today—despite the recent National Intelligence Estimate which says that Iran abandoned its nuclear program in 2003—Israel and its lobby are still pushing the United States into a war against Iran. No review of this fantastic new work can do it justice. You need to read this—the one book that could help stop Israel from getting the United States—and the world—involved in a horrifying global holocaust.

Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm..._nukes118.html

[North Pole]

Re: Non-Judaic Nature of Christ

Armenian, pardon my ignorance, but I have a question - was the Caucasus a part of Khazaria?