Racism

[loseyourname]

Everybody is prejudiced. There's no way to avoid that. Racism can avoided in the individual by simply learning to look at a person as more than a set of visual or cultural characteristics that you associate with a given race. Discriminate against people for being ugly, or stupid, or inarticulate, not for being Jewish or black.

There's also a huge difference between racial differentiation and discrimination. Recognizing that different races have traits that set them apart and make them distinct is all fine and dandy, but there's no good reason to discriminate against a person solely because of this racial differentiation.

[Nimrod]

Racism is racial prejudice or discrimination against other RACES (not ethnicities), that one race is more superior than another based on the belief that some races are by nature superior.

[Nimrod]

Originally posted by loseyourname I guess we're all African if you go back far enough. I was born in the US, and half of my ancestors have been here for millenia, so xxxx it, I'm American. What about you? Do you consider yourself French? For that matter, how do you feel about Americans?

Lawfully speaking, ANYONE who is a LEGAL citizen of the United States is an "AMERICAN." If you were to put it anyway else that means none of us are technically "Americans" because that is just a label and we have ADOPTED that label. The only "Americans" aside from the Indians that I can trace back are the African Americans. They are the closest since they were BROUGHT here in the early 15th and 16th centuries.

[felizitation]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Racism

Originally posted by Anonymouse Inequalities existed before racism. The world is one of inequalities. People are unequal. Races are unequal. Animals are unequal. Tampons are unequal. There is no such thing as "equality".

Yes, and then ? Even clones or twins are not equal, since they have not the same experience.

Originally posted by Anonymouse
But one can indeed argue that race goes beyond physical differences and to the genetic level, so it's physical, mental, cognitive, intelligence, etc. indeed it has been argued from this point of view. Just because you belong to a certain race doesn't mean you are equal. No two fruits are equal, no two apples are equal. So many of the modern people are spoon fed egalitarian fiction since birth from every orifice of communication they grow up to believe in "equality". There is no such thing.

Stating we are unequal is naive and obvious. From them, you're building a theory, but you're missing a point in your demonstration:
Your making a dangerous link between the appearance/physicall stuff and the cognitive stuff, covering yourself with scientific arguments you don't master.
Genotype defines what we can call a race. The number of chromosomes and the amount of genes are the same within a the race. Genes characterise someone still physically, never intellectually.
Sorry, it was never stated that intelligence is based on the amount of neurones, on the size of the brain (I mean within the race, birds and humans are not of the same race).
You and me have not the same genes, but the amout is the same. We belong, I think, to the same race, we are "inequal", MOREOVER, unable to be compared, since we are different entities.

Now, I'm sure I'm a better mathematician or physician than you. I'm a xxxx in economy. These sentances won't make me more or less intelligent.
There is not one unique kind of intelligence. However, even if their exist many psychotechnical stuff to assign an IQ to a person, one cannot weight intelligence. One can weight the skills concerning a narrowed field of human possibility.
By the way, in USA, you love weigh/measure everything, assigning statistics results. It gives the scientifics HOLLY evidence through the power of numbers, even if the problem was at the begining ill-posed. I won't blame you.

Now, if black/arabic/porto rican people are predjudiced in USA, even i they have they own f... school clubs or whatever, it's only on the matters of education. But don't be fooled, armenian ethnic group is fragile also. If a dung decide a day that armenian do not need to go to school anymore, the white horse would follow even if it is simply unfounded.

Originally posted by Anonymouse
That is untrue. It is only a modern phenomenon that "discrimination" is associated in negative terms. God forbid anyone is caught discriminating. It used to be that it was a compliment to have a "discriminating mind" in other words being keen and individualistic and differentiating in your choices. Now it's a crime against humanity.

Ok, maybe it does not have the same semantic in French and English. By the way, in French, it contains the notions of "insulation" and "treatment". I don't know what was the usages of this word 500 years ago and I really think I don't give a holly xxxx.

Originally posted by Anonymouse
Egalitarianism, is misleading. Look at it this way, all political systems are socialistic. Whatever is socialistic has equality as its premise, whether it is democracy, communism, or socialism, they all seek to make things more "equal" for their respective clients, redistribute wealth, etc.

And then ? Would you like to see your rights to go to school avoided because of your big noze ? Forbidden to go to hospital because you are taller than the average of american statistics ?
Do you even understand what socialism does mean ? I'm wondering because you're making such a confusion between an economic system, based on the fact that private property doesn't exist,(many things to say) and the will to apply the basical human rights which is "men are born equal" stuff.

Originally posted by Anonymouse
So we established that to discriminate is to choose something over something else, in other words, the natural and cognitive ability to differentiate. If racism is discrimination based on someones physical appearance, then by all means I am racist, since I find myself attracted to "white" females, as opposed to dark skinned ones. By doing so I am exercising my cognitive ability to differentiate between the two and choose one over the other. I am a racist.

I don't know why you're so much in bad faith. Racism is as I said making the link between physical and intelect, ie. the ability to think. I hope that you don't make such connections. A good example:women. Women were thought to be less intelligent than men. What was it based on ?
Simply because women were not allowed to go to school. If you put women at the same level/rights than men, then you may experience sizing the skills. This is what we can see now, definitely, women are equal to men concerning the intelect.
A goat is a goat, you're lucky boy you're able differentiate it. Now why are you attracted by one goat instead of another one ? Just a question of taste. Do you think one of these goats is clever than the other one ?
So, do you think the ones having a big noze are clever ? the ones who are heavy are stupid ?
You're tastes has no bearing to size one's intelect. Look, you are not seing me, we correspond through this forum. Maybe i'm porto rican.
You prefer white woman (taste), but are black stupid (racism) ?

Originally posted by Anonymouse
While you may disagree or not has no bearing, since Japan doesnt spend millions on diversity programs and minority rights, etc., nor does it have ethnic minorities creating riots ( ex. 91 L.A. riots ).

There was few words after the "I disagree", which I THINK (even if you don't care) had their importance, concerning the homogeneity. If we make the whole word homogenehous, from what you are stating, there would be not problem anymore.
Anything else to say ?
By the way, you're talking about a social class making the riot. Even if they are all from the same ethnic group, it's a social class, pushed into a social pression. I lay the stress on the fact that, since ethnic group are oganised into ghetto, social ostracism is also performed.
When a ghetto, which is a ethnic group geographically confined, does a riot, you'll see only porto rican or black or armenians or turks. This is normal because "we take ware of you" stuff, still tending to feed confusion.
It fits well for the TV audiences. On TV they always forget (they are so scatterbrained) to tell you the conditions, the background, the sate management.
By the way an individual is not only a skin, it is also the experience of a whole life.

For the Japanese example, I have another one: China, 1989, Tien an Men. Homogeneous population though.

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Nimrod That just makes you another narcolepsic uninformed troll though.

I loved this post so much.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname Everybody is prejudiced. There's no way to avoid that. Racism can avoided in the individual by simply learning to look at a person as more than a set of visual or cultural characteristics that you associate with a given race. Discriminate against people for being ugly, or stupid, or inarticulate, not for being Jewish or black.

There's also a huge difference between racial differentiation and discrimination. Recognizing that different races have traits that set them apart and make them distinct is all fine and dandy, but there's no good reason to discriminate against a person solely because of this racial differentiation.

Did you read what I said or did you ignore intentionally? I already established that racism and discrimination go hand in hand, don't try to make this any more elastic than it already is.

If I choose to marry someone that is "white" I am a racist, since that is ipso facto discrimination towards everyone not "white".

I do not hate someone because of said traits, but I am merely tackling the logic, rather the illogic of this.

[loseyourname]

Relax, buddy. I never contradicted you, nor did I criticize anything you said. I was responding to Nimrod.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Racism

Originally posted by felizitation Yes, and then ? Even clones or twins are not equal, since they have not the same experience.



Stating we are unequal is naive and obvious. From them, you're building a theory, but you're missing a point in your demonstration:
Your making a dangerous link between the appearance/physicall stuff and the cognitive stuff, covering yourself with scientific arguments you don't master.
Genotype defines what we can call a race. The number of chromosomes and the amount of genes are the same within a the race. Genes characterise someone still physically, never intellectually.
Sorry, it was never stated that intelligence is based on the amount of neurones, on the size of the brain (I mean within the race, birds and humans are not of the same race).
You and me have not the same genes, but the amout is the same. We belong, I think, to the same race, we are "inequal", MOREOVER, unable to be compared, since we are different entities.

Well, if we didn't have differences down to our intelligence and cognitive ability maybe we wouldn't need silly socialistic egalitarian programs or affirmitive action to help those "equal" counterparts. Asians outscore whites and blacks on IQ tests, and have faster response time. That blacks excel in athletics, more than any other race, is another genetic factor. Aggression and temperament is also determined by genes, which varies by race. Of course anyone can pick and choose the allele patterns or gene frequencies they study, that's not the point. No matter if it is 1% difference, or whatever, there are differences, whether you like it or not or if it is uncomfortable to you. That is reality. Stating is naive yet to disbelieve otherwise is even more naive, rather it is stupid. I bet you haven't read the "Bell Curve" which was attacked from left and right by egalitarians and the media for being "racist" and showing an "agenda", which was essentially showing real intelligence differences across the three main races, with Asians showing on top. Surely this is not the work of "crazy white supremacists".

Originally posted by felizitation Now, I'm sure I'm a better mathematician or physician than you. I'm a xxxx in economy. These sentances won't make me more or less intelligent.
There is not one unique kind of intelligence. However, even if their exist many psychotechnical stuff to assign an IQ to a person, one cannot weight intelligence. One can weight the skills concerning a narrowed field of human possibility.
By the way, in USA, you love weigh/measure everything, assigning statistics results. It gives the scientifics HOLLY evidence through the power of numbers, even if the problem was at the begining ill-posed. I won't blame you.

I am sure you are a better mathematician, and indeed I suck at math. In fact, your response time is probably way faster than mine. You are just admitting that there are differences between us individually. If that is so, there are differences with regard to population groups as well. The truth is there are superior and inferior people, whether it is in intellect, or physical abilities, the world is unequal and there are people of different intellects, characters, and capacities, and no amount of egalitarian fiction or wishful thinking can change that. But then again, you are in France, a totally socialistic country that believes in the equality of everything, even down to the toilet bowls.

Originally posted by felizitation Now, if black/arabic/porto rican people are predjudiced in USA, even i they have they own f... school clubs or whatever, it's only on the matters of education. But don't be fooled, armenian ethnic group is fragile also. If a dung decide a day that armenian do not need to go to school anymore, the white horse would follow even if it is simply unfounded.

What in the hell are you saying here?

Originally posted by felizitation And then ? Would you like to see your rights to go to school avoided because of your big noze ? Forbidden to go to hospital because you are taller than the average of american statistics ?
Do you even understand what socialism does mean ? I'm wondering because you're making such a confusion between an economic system, based on the fact that private property doesn't exist,(many things to say) and the will to apply the basical human rights which is "men are born equal" stuff.

I don't have a big nose. Furthermore my rights would not disappear if society was not diversified. Within your own homogenous community you do not need to worry about "rights". It is only within "melting pots" that such crises are created, controlled and manipulated because it is beneficial to politics. You socialists ignore the basic rights of humanity and free will by imposing forced "equality". If it is a private school, it is with their property right to accept students they prefer, on the account of discriminating other people. It is all about property. Communism, socialism, fascism, democracy, all these political systems exist because they create problems and violate property rights, the basic foundation of any society throughout time immemorial. If you don't know what you're arguing about, don't bother arguing for your ignorance is only laffable. I only laff at you for your assertion that private property doesn't exist. I would imagine youre like the resident Shahumyan here who slithers from hither and hither with his Marxist credo, and you don't sound awfully different. Private property is the rule, not the exception. Only delusional egalitarian Marxists would believe otherwise. How are we born equal? Some of us are born with more blood and goo than others, and some of us are born causing less pain to our mothers vagina than others, your point still makes no sense.

Originally posted by felizitation I don't know why you're so much in bad faith. Racism is as I said making the link between physical and intelect, ie. the ability to think. I hope that you don't make such connections. A good example:women. Women were thought to be less intelligent than men. What was it based on ?
Simply because women were not allowed to go to school. If you put women at the same level/rights than men, then you may experience sizing the skills. This is what we can see now, definitely, women are equal to men concerning the intelect.
A goat is a goat, you're lucky boy you're able differentiate it. Now why are you attracted by one goat instead of another one ? Just a question of taste. Do you think one of these goats is clever than the other one ?

Bringing women in the example is another silly attempt by you. God knows how many people think I am racist or anti-woman, but for the sake of logic and common sense reasoning, I will nonetheless argue that women and men are not equal, not in physical traits, nor mental or cognitive. The argument that "men held women back for if they did not they could be equal", ignores the fact that throughout all history most of the contributions and power and aggressiveness has been by males, who are more aggressive than females because of testosterone, not social construct. If you say "Well if men allowed women to have a chance they would show they are equal or better", well too bad, if you go back far enough to when man and woman first appeared, one was clearly going to take advantage of the situation, thus from the onset man must have possessed something more than woman to allow him to rise above. Stop beating the dead horse, egalitarianism lacks logic, for it ignores the basic tenets and irregularities and inequalities inherent in nature and life.

Originally posted by felizitation There was few words after the "I disagree", which I THINK (even if you don't care) had their importance, concerning the homogeneity. If we make the whole word homogenehous, from what you are stating, there would be not problem anymore.
Anything else to say ?
By the way, you're talking about a social class making the riot. Even if they are all from the same ethnic group, it's a social class, pushed into a social pression. I lay the stress on the fact that, since ethnic group are oganised into ghetto, social ostracism is also performed.
When a ghetto, which is a ethnic group geographically confined, does a riot, you'll see only porto rican or black or armenians or turks. This is normal because "we take ware of you" stuff, still tending to feed confusion.
It fits well for the TV audiences. On TV they always forget (they are so scatterbrained) to tell you the conditions, the background, the sate management.
By the way an individual is not only a skin, it is also the experience of a whole life.

For the Japanese example, I have another one: China, 1989, Tien an Men. Homogeneous population though.

All this whining about the "social class". Asians are a minority in America just like blacks and hispanics. You don't see them whine and moan about affirmitive action. In fact, there are no "Asian ghettos". Like I said, culture is a manifestation of race, for it is the outward expression of a people belonging to that group. You don't have to like it, but that is the way it goes.

As for China, China is anything but homogenous. By homogenous I am talking not only racially but culturally unified. China has many ethnic minorities. Sorry your example doesn't work.

I'll take Egalitarian Fiction for $200 please Alex.

[SagGal]

Originally posted by loseyourname I agree with feliz. If you're an American citizen, then you're American. If you ever become a Chinese citizen, you'll be Chinese. But regardless of anything else, you'll always be Armenian; that's the one thing that can never be taken away and can never change. You just have to differentiate between citizenship and race. There is no American race other than Native American. for that matter, there is no Armenian race. Armenians are caucasian; Armenian is an ethnicity, not a race.

so u consider yourself an american?

living somewhere does not make u that country's nationality. Sure its probably in the paperwork and all for citizenship, but you should still call urself an armenian or whichever race/nationality ur parents are.

Yes, race, nationality, ethnicity etc. are different things, but i will not go into that becasue that will be repeating what Nimrod said about race.

[loseyourname]

I am American, both by citizenship and by heritage, and I am also Armenian, only by heritage. I'm trying to differentiate between the two.