notes and comments

[Sako]

Re: elegy

I'm talking about the present, and Ara's message is that our present condition, in terms of how our people think, move, work, etc... is not very much unlike the past 600 years. As you said, the majority go with the flow, apparently because they don't have the means to do great works. To me that is nonsense, some of the most influential people in history came from the lowest ranks.

Yeah, but many of our famous people didn't grow up in Armenia. No matter what rank you are, see, in Armenia, it's very, very hard to move on. Other Armenians pull you down! That's the problem. We have so many talented people here. You know how they are treated? If not, good. You don't want to know. Anyways, I understand what your saying J. I just hope you understand what I'M saying.

As long as people live and think as individuals as opposed to a collective, nothing will change. If a group of 100 men work together to build homes, they can build an entire neighbourhood in months given the resources to do so. Government and the social structure is preventing this from happening.

...I have nothing more to add...

[seruven]

Re: elegy

Turkey is considered the most uncivil, backwards, and inhumane (can't really remember the word used) nation in the world. It's number one in the list! I doubt this could've happened if the Turks weren't racists and if Turkey didn't have VERY SERIOUS issues to deal with. I suggest you take a better look at what's going on and with what country we're dealing with.

Saco, an advise: If you want to be taken seriously, never make such controversial allegations without a reference.

"Turkey is considered bla bla." Considered by whom? What list are you talking about? What are the qualifications of the people that prepared the list you mentioned?

In a serious discussion, without a reference or a with a reference to a crappy paper written by some nobody, you would ridicule yourself due to your above allegations.

And it's sad that I'm the one who reminds these simple facts to you. No Armenian shows up and tells the truth as long as someone is aiming at Turks.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

about the majority of turks being racist:
that's dangerous nonsense.
many turks are very probably half armenian.
they have our DNA.
and we have their mentality.
who is the winner?
who is the loser here?
armenians from armenia are emigrating to turkey today.
how many turks or armenians from istanbul are emigrating to yerevan?

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

the majority of turks,
like the majority of all nations, including armenians,
are too busy taking care of number one to worry about anything else...and that includes entertaining racist thoughts.
it is ridiculous to speak of a majority after knowing only 10 or 100 representatives.

[Lucin]

Re: elegy

Saco, an advise: If you want to be taken seriously, never make such controversial allegations without a reference.

"Turkey is considered bla bla." Considered by whom? What list are you talking about? What are the qualifications of the people that prepared the list you mentioned?

In a serious discussion, without a reference or a with a reference to a crappy paper written by some nobody, you would ridicule yourself due to your above allegations.

And it's sad that I'm the one who reminds these simple facts to you. No Armenian shows up and tells the truth as long as someone is aiming at Turks.

The sad thing is that you are totally blind to your country's past and present; which constitutes the best proof/ reference you demand in here... How hypocritical of you Mr. seruven… Carry on lurking and jump in to correct us like some sort of a 'mentor' as soon as someone mentions some fact about Turks that hurts your sensitive feelings slightly. You seem to be playing quite well some Jews' victim game here. I must admit, we don't see many Turks like you.


Saco, it is really hard to engage in a "dialogue" with A. Baliozian, just look at his senseless, inane responses above. As usual, spewing incorrect, baseless assertions for the naïve, ill-informed reader to absorb. It is truly sad if anyone buys into it.

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

Yeah, but many of our famous people didn't grow up in Armenia. No matter what rank you are, see, in Armenia, it's very, very hard to move on. Other Armenians pull you down! That's the problem. We have so many talented people here. You know how they are treated? If not, good. You don't want to know. Anyways, I understand what your saying J. I just hope you understand what I'M saying.

Saco, the right thing to do is let us know how they are treated, even though we already have an idea. But there are two ways of going about this, one is to slander Armenia and its people for being "cannibalistic", and the other is to simply state the facts, not judging Armenia and it's people despite their problems so that we may not feed sentiments of estrangement, bewilderment towards them. These are our people and that is our country, and I don't come here to learn about Armenians so that I can run away from them! So do tell us, because we want to not only know, but understand the grim reality.

[Sako]

Re: elegy

Saco, an advise: If you want to be taken seriously, never make such controversial allegations without a reference. "Turkey is considered bla bla." Considered by whom? What list are you talking about? What are the qualifications of the people that prepared the list you mentioned?

Kardesh, I wanted to, just couldn't remember the name . Sorry bro. This list exists though. It was created by the United Nations if I'm not mistaken and Turkey was in 1st place. It was a bit hard for me to believe as well at first (when I first joined the forums) but when I realized what's going on in Turkey, I completely agreed with the list. Turkey really is in a critical state. Let's face it and find a way to move on.

In a serious discussion, without a reference or a with a reference to a crappy paper written by some nobody, you would ridicule yourself due to your above allegations.

If you knew me well, you'd know that I don't lie and I don't mention anything unless it's serious. If you didn't know, now you know...

And it's sad that I'm the one who reminds these simple facts to you. No Armenian shows up and tells the truth as long as someone is aiming at Turks.

Well I do at all times, Kardesh. Don't confuse me with anyone!

[Sako]

Re: elegy

about the majority of turks being racist:
that's dangerous nonsense.
many turks are very probably half armenian.

There are 70 million Turks ... how many are half Armenian? I'm sorry but you'll have to back up your statements in a much better way if you want me to take them seriously.

they have our DNA.
and we have their mentality.

I'm sorry but there is only one word for this ... BS! There are many Armenians in Turkey (a very small minority compared to everyone else) and during the AG and before that, Turks DID marry Armenians but that doesn't mean we all carry each other's DNA's. What a rediculous thing to say. Think about what your saying, Sir. And we don't have the mentality of the Turks. They have gotten almost everything they have through blood and murder ... not endeavor. We aren't murderers and we don't think like Turks. I'm not saying all Turks are bad, please don't misunderstand me, but their mentality is very different from ours. We have many similarities because of living side by side but that's not enough.

who is the winner?
who is the loser here?
armenians from armenia are emigrating to turkey today.
how many turks or armenians from istanbul are emigrating to yerevan?

Very few. There aren't thousands of Armenians going to Turkey though. What are you trying to say with that line? Emmigrating to Turkey? Why would an Armenian go to Turkey? You know how they are treated there? Not just Armenians, Kurds and many others as well. Armenians go there but not a majority or even minority. This simply happens from time to time...

the majority of turks,
like the majority of all nations, including armenians,
are too busy taking care of number one to worry about anything else...and that includes entertaining racist thoughts.
it is ridiculous to speak of a majority after knowing only 10 or 100 representatives.

You might know ten ... We know MILLIONS Mr. B!

Saco, it is really hard to engage in a "dialogue" with A. Baliozian, just look at his senseless, inane responses above. As usual, spewing incorrect, baseless assertions for the naïve, ill-informed reader to absorb. It is truly sad if anyone buys into it.

He says a lot of right things as well but there's a lot of rediculous stuff as well. PLUS he writes in a certain way that is hard to understand at times. I hope that changes in time...

And Lucin jan, please don't misunderstand Seruven. I think you guys have just gotten off on the wrong foot. Plus I agree, he might be a bit sensative when he sees people talk about Turks but I don't find that strange. Let's all just relax a bit. In the end, Seruven isn't exactly a denier.

[Sako]

Re: elegy

Saco, the right thing to do is let us know how they are treated, even though we already have an idea. But there are two ways of going about this, one is to slander Armenia and its people for being "cannibalistic", and the other is to simply state the facts, not judging Armenia and it's people despite their problems so that we may not feed sentiments of estrangement, bewilderment towards them. These are our people and that is our country, and I don't come here to learn about Armenians so that I can run away from them!

Many do though...

Anyways, if you want to know ... I'll tell you !

A simple example is that some of the most talented students in Armenia can't get anywhere. You can see them working in Grand Candy. They have red xxxxing diplomas! You know what that is? You only get that if you've got straight A's like your whole damn life. These people don't get jobs. No one allows them to move on and become somebody. They have to remain nobodies.

The same Aram KHachatryan wouldn't be who he is today if he studied or grew up here. many have tried .... almost all have failed. Isn't it strange that almost all the great people we know today haven't become who they were HERE in Armenia? When W. Saroyan came to Armenia, the Armenians didn't even consider him to be Armenian. They looked at him as if he was a freakin gavur.

J, we have problems bro ... serious problems ... and we need to face them NOW. We're losing our identity in so many ways. It's time to move our asses and I mean right now. I'm doing my part, let's all do our parts.

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

There are 70 million Turks

There are 70 million Turkish citizens, about 20% Kurd. I'd estimate there are 50,000-100,000 Armenians who know they are Armenian. I'd also go out on a limb and say there are roughly a million who are of Armenian descent and don't know it.