notes and comments

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

ignorance and stupidity
may be the most innocent of all crimes
but in life
they are the most severely punished.

My experience tells me the same. Though is man not always plagued with ignorance and stupidity that he must constantly surmount and fight against all his life?

I suppose you combat it because when you see it in another and do nothing about it, you start to see it in yourself. I say this because this is how I feel towards my family after I get mad at them for doing something stupid, or if they get mad at me for doing something stupid that was actually a result of everyone's lack of initiative and collaboration.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Wednesday, June 16, 2009
*****************************************
OUR FAVORITE MANTRA
************************************************** ****
A reader writes: “They massacred us because they hated us.”
That's racist talk and that's nonsense.
Not all Turks hated us. Some even risked their lives to save some of us, in the same way that today some of them are willing to risk their freedom to support our cause. No doubt Talaat and his gang of cut-throats were racist, but then, who wasn't? Even Americans of “all men are created equal” fame were racists. They didn't massacre all their minorities, true, only some of them. They were smarter than Turks. They divided and exploited them mercilessly. Where would America be today without its cheap labor? Empires are raised by brute force but maintained by divide-and-rule manipulation.
We are better at dividing ourselves – or rather, allowing others to divide us -- than dividing our enemies. This may explain why almost all talk of Armenians by Armenians ends with the mantra, “Mart bidi ch'ellank.” And because I explain and expand on this mantra, I am silenced. We want flattery, not criticism no matter how objective and honest. But flattery does not solve problems, it covers them up. Flattery does not build character, honesty does.
#

[Sako]

Re: elegy

That's racist talk and that's nonsense.

We never said all Turks were racists and hated us. We're saying that a very big majority were. Saying that THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of Turks weren't racists before and aren't racists today is not only nonsense but illiterate and childish.

You either don't know Turkey very well ... or do ... and still support the Turks!

I know so many Turks I would GLADLY give my life for but sadly they aren't a majority ... or even in many respects ... a minority. The laws and mentality of the Turkish leaders and YES, millions of Turks, is very dangerous. It's not only us they hate. They have issues they need to SERIOUSLY deal with and I'm afraid not saying what's going on by it's name won't change anything. And before I end this post, a FUN FACT:

Turkey is considered the most uncivil, backwards, and inhumane (can't really remember the word used) nation in the world. It's number one in the list! I doubt this could've happened if the Turks weren't racists and if Turkey didn't have VERY SERIOUS issues to deal with. I suggest you take a better look at what's going on and with what country we're dealing with.

Bottom line is, we have to look at the bigger picture at all times. Period.

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

Turkey is considered the most uncivil, backwards, and inhumane (can't really remember the word used) nation in the world. It's number one in the list! I doubt this could've happened if the Turks weren't racists and if Turkey didn't have VERY SERIOUS issues to deal with. I suggest you take a better look at what's going on and with what country we're dealing with.

Bottom line is, we have to look at the bigger picture at all times. Period.

Saco, Ara will just turn this around and replace "Turkey" with "Armenia". I see his point in challenging us to be better than seekers of flattery.

Armenians have very serious issues to deal with too, namely... How much of our own livelihood are the majority of us willing to give up in order to even begin to face, or better, to acknowledge our own problems, what needs to be done to ensure the survival of Armenia, and afterwards, bringing about an epoch enlightenment for our race? Yes our people have so many talents and skills, but we must used them in the right conscience in order to make anything out of our country. Many of us prefer to settle for Turk hate as an orthodox path to being "an Armenian", I consider this shallow and weak. Yes, we must fight our enemies, but that doesn't mean we mustn't look at ourselves with penetrating eyes and see that we aren't as angelic and benevolent as we'd like to think we are.

There is virtually no limit to this way of self-sacrifice for the sake of Armenians, and the deeper we go with it, the more we will discover that there are better, more constructive inputs for our energies than our classic chauvinism, our quest for sensual pleasures and comforts, immediate self-gratification...

Saco, as a religious person, I'm sure you already know this very well.

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

Very well said JGK3

[Sako]

Re: elegy

Saco, Ara will just turn this around and replace "Turkey" with "Armenia".

I'd love to see him try! Are you by chance comparing the most uncivil country in the world to Armenia? That's almost hilarious if you are, J.

I see his point in challenging us to be better than seekers of flattery.

Who exactly is seeking flattery? I'd say half of our populace aren't seeking anything at all. They just go with the flow. That's what pains me. They neither move on or back. They just go with the flow no matter what you do. What flattery are you talking about? Has any Armenian said that we don't have problems? I very much doubt it. If he's challenging you J, that's fine. But he shouldn't be challenging me because I couldn't care less about flattery. I'm looking at the facts and I can see that Mr. B is covering some very important ones up ... perhaps unintentionally ... and I can't agree with that. I'm sorry.

Armenians have very serious issues to deal with too, namely... How much of our own livelihood are the majority of us willing to give up in order to even begin to face, or better, to acknowledge our own problems, what needs to be done to ensure the survival of Armenia, and afterwards, bringing about an epoch enlightenment for our race? Yes our people have so many talents and skills, but we must used them in the right conscience in order to make anything out of our country.

ABSOLUTELY agree here. I've been saying this no matter where I go. We need to pull ourselves together. But I'm afraid you're taking this conversation in a different direction. Mr. B wasn't talking about Armenia's current state. In many posts he's been talking about why the AG took place and basically HISTORY not the PRESENT. And I challenged him very seriously with my posts. The result? He's talking to you now! There is a word for this ... I think it was called "Ignoring".

If we're talking about the past ... let's stick to that. If we're talking about the present... let's stick to the present. Both are very broad fields and we shouldn't be mixing them up. Mr. B has been mixing A LOT up and that's why I think people have started misunderstanding him on many occasions.

Many of us prefer to settle for Turk hate as an orthodox path to being "an Armenian", I consider this shallow and weak. Yes, we must fight our enemies, but that doesn't mean we mustn't look at ourselves with penetrating eyes and see that we aren't as angelic and benevolent as we'd like to think we are.

I agree again but not everyone falls into this category of Armenians. In fact, many don't give a xxxx about our past.

There is virtually no limit to this way of self-sacrifice for the sake of Armenians, and the deeper we go with it, the more we will discover that there are better, more constructive inputs for our energies than our classic chauvinism, our quest for sensual pleasures and comforts, immediate self-gratification...

Saco, as a religious person, I'm sure you already know this very well.

Yeah I do but what exactly are we talking about right NOW? The past? The present? I was talking mostly about the past ... saying that xxxx is mixed up today in Turkey ... the same way it was back then! Let's decide what we're talking about and start talking. If we're just going to through random thoughts around, count me out. We won't get anywhere like that...

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

What he was referring to is the age old saying "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". We need to unite as a people and divide our enemies.... but it's obvious we still haven't grasped that concept since we're constantly battling within ourselves.

[Sako]

Re: elegy

I agree ... but he (Mr. B) has also said a lot of things that are far from reality!

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

I'm talking about the present, and Ara's message is that our present condition, in terms of how our people think, move, work, etc... is not very much unlike the past 600 years. As you said, the majority go with the flow, apparently because they don't have the means to do great works. To me that is nonsense, some of the most influential people in history came from the lowest ranks.

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

As long as people live and think as individuals as opposed to a collective, nothing will change. If a group of 100 men work together to build homes, they can build an entire neighbourhood in months given the resources to do so. Government and the social structure is preventing this from happening.