Recent Influx of Immigration

[Darorinag]

I think immigration laws would not need to be any stricter if we did not have such an issue with the Mexicans. Mexican illegals should be thrown out with their families, including the ones that were born here. Anybody that comes near the border planning to cross illegally should be shot. And the people in political office that think illegals should get driver's licenses and free education should be tortured to death. If we cleaned up the issue with the southern border, we would be fine. The fact that people come here like that and take our tax money and then have kids who become citizens who will soon be a majority voting population and would elect stupid people to office is very frustrating. And I do not need anybody telling me that they take the jobs nobody wants. That suggests that the survival of United States is dependant on uneducated Mexicans.

I TOTALLY agree with what you said.
Also, Chinese illegals are to Canada what Mexican illegals are to USA - i.e. thousands of them coming to the country illegally, GETTING FREE EDUCATION ILLEGALLY, GETTING WELFARE ILLEGALLY, etc.

When you don't have people abusing the system, only then can you have open immigration, not the other way around. Because only then can you be sure that you can trust them. Someone who abuses the most fundamental laws BEFORE even becoming a citizen would abuse the most fundamental laws AFTER becoming a citizen too.

[anileve]

Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not. Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians. Besides Chinese are known for holding many self-owned businesses, and sending their kids to the best schools. If you take a close look at ivy league schools you may notice that reputable schools have a large percentage of Asian students.

Now in terms of immigration, intelligence and decency are not related. A severely intelligent individual may hold several degrees and be quite skilled in his trade, however it does not stop him from engaging in illegal activities or business. White-collar crime is one of the most corrupt crimes, more influential than a petty theft. White-collar crime may be a factor in downsizing and off-balancing national economy, just check politicians and major tycoons in other countries, where majority of the countries wealth lies in their hands.

Also, immigrants from many third world countries, are known to work much harder than those from western Europe, who are here mostly to expand their already booming capital or seeking political asylum. The first generation does take low end jobs without much hesitation in order to provide a better future for their children, since very rarely the opportunities presented to them in this country are not taken for granted and surely are not taken with pretentiousness, i.e. “Oh Lord, in no way would I take that ridiculous job at the grocery store, that is so degrading”. However, their hard work at the factories and other “low-end” work helps them put kids through school. And their kids as a result end up pushing out spoiled natives who do nothing but b*tch about the flow of immigrants, by taking jobs in science, technical and medical fields. If any of you are aware billionare and a co-founder Sergey Brin of Google is a Russian immigrant. Many prominent individuals of this country and many others are of a non-Western European descent. Without those “pitiful and embarrassingly low job positions” who the hell would provide mass transportation, build buildings where you can sit in a nice office and surf the net (of course because you hold your reputable degree). Who would clean up the streets and make sure that pot holes will not ruin the tires of your brand new car, bought by your immigrant mommies and daddies? Who would serve you your food at a local fast food joint?

Anyone can pretend he has an ivy league degree, or a supposed skill, and sit in the office eat donuts prentending like they are managing the business. However constructing mechanic parts of the latest car model, which you will beg your parents to buy for you, in hot and sweaty factories, requires hard work and dedication and no leisure time. Any job is important and necessary for a functioning society, it is not the skills or a degree you possess but rather dedication and hard work. US's powerful empire was build on the backs of immigrants and that is a fact.

So get off your pompous, fat asses, get yourselves a job and stop criticizing others.

[Anonymouse]

The idea that we should embrace endless immigration, is silly, and I am arguing this from a Statist point of view, if you want to maintain cohesion and order within your given State.

Currently the only part of the world embracing the idea of "diversity" and "immigration", are Europe, North America, and Australia. You don't see any other country, such as Japan, rolling over this idea.

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag Seapahn, relax, I was trying to show the irony in what you said, and in your previous arguments with me about the same issue.

How does what I said have remotely, even in the multi universe sense, from one end of the 1st universe to the other end of the infinity+1th universe have ANYTHING to do with race?

Do you simply just see race everywhere? Like do you classify the brand of breakfast cereal you don't like as "jewrial"?



Humans are NOT created equal. You have some that end up being amazing musicians, some that can make beautiful sculputres with their hands, and some that become awesome horse jockies while others that can kick even my ass in basketball. Hard work and practice and dedication can go a long way but the guy that was born to be a horse jockey has no chance in hell of ending up in NBA ... no matter how hard he tries.

[Darorinag]

Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians.

Where did you get that statistics from, oh wise one?

IMMIGRATION BY TOP TEN SOURCE COUNTRIES
(Principal Applicants and Dependants)

1) China, People's Republic of (16.10%)
2) India (11.11%)
3) Pakistan (6.13%)
4) Philippines (5.15%)
5) Korea, Republic of (3.84%)
6) United States (2.35%) <<< note that some Chinese and Indians also go to USA and come to Canada from there, sometimes illegally. Add to those the Mexicans.
7) Iran (2.29%)
8) Romania (2.23%)
9) Sri Lanka (2.20%)
10) United Kingdom (2.14%) <<< note that some Pakistanis and Indians who have been in the UK for a while apply to Canada from there, so you're not talking about pure English even here..

Total for Top Ten Only: %53.54.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2001/1imm-05.html

Source: Citizenship & Immigration Canada

Now compare 16.10% to 2.14%, and you will see what I mean. Please do not claim what you don't know. I see this with my eyes every day.

[Arvestaked]

Originally posted by anileve Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not. Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians. Besides Chinese are known for holding many self-owned businesses, and sending their kids to the best schools. If you take a close look at ivy league schools you may notice that reputable schools have a large percentage of Asian students.

Now in terms of immigration, intelligence and decency are not related. A severely intelligent individual may hold several degrees and be quite skilled in his trade, however it does not stop him from engaging in illegal activities or business. White-collar crime is one of the most corrupt crimes, more influential than a petty theft. White-collar crime may be a factor in downsizing and off-balancing national economy, just check politicians and major tycoons in other countries, where majority of the countries wealth lies in their hands.

Also, immigrants from many third world countries, are known to work much harder than those from western Europe, who are here mostly to expand their already booming capital or seeking political asylum. The first generation does take low end jobs without much hesitation in order to provide a better future for their children, since very rarely the opportunities presented to them in this country are not taken for granted and surely are not taken with pretentiousness, i.e. “Oh Lord, in no way would I take that ridiculous job at the grocery store, that is so degrading”. However, their hard work at the factories and other “low-end” work helps them put kids through school. And their kids as a result end up pushing out spoiled natives who do nothing but b*tch about the flow of immigrants, by taking jobs in science, technical and medical fields. If any of you are aware billionare and a co-founder Sergey Brin of Google is a Russian immigrant. Many prominent individuals of this country and many others are of a non-Western European descent. Without those “pitiful and embarrassingly low job positions” who the hell would provide mass transportation, build buildings where you can sit in a nice office and surf the net (of course because you hold your reputable degree). Who would clean up the streets and make sure there are pot holes will not ruin the tires of your brand new care bought by your immigrant mommies and daddies? Who would serve you your food at a local fast food joint?

Anyone can pretend he has an ivy league degree, or supposed skill sit in the office eat donuts and pretend like they are managing the business. However constructing mechanic parts of the latest car model, which you will beg your parents to buy for you, in hot and sweaty factories, requires hard work and dedication and no leisure time. Any job is important and necessary for a functioning society, it is not the skills or a degree you possess but rather dedication and hard work. US's powerful empire was build on the backs of immigrants and that is a fact.

So get off your pompous, fat asses, get yourselves a job and stop criticizing others.

Now I did not read the thread, as I had said but there are probably very few people that believe the borders should be entirely closed. There should always be some immigration and most people would feel that way. You do not need to point to specific examples because this country is a bunch of immigrants. However, for the sake of maintaining the diversity and reasonable population, immigration should be strictly regulated with regards to ethnicity and overall numbers of immigrants; otherwise, what seems to you as a source of hardwork now, will be detrimental in many ways in the future. And there is never an excuse for illegal immigration and I stand by my kicking-out and killing idea. Not having illegal thirdworld immigrants will just cause businesses to compete for employment like they should be. It does not mean that there will suddenly be nobody to take these jobs; that is a ridiculous thought. Those jobs will pay more or be made more desirable in different ways and will be filled.

[Darorinag]

The above were the 2001 figures.

Now let's look at the 2002 figures, shall we?

1) China, People's Republic of (14.51%) < down
2) India (12.58%) < UP
3) Pakistan (6.18%) < UP
4) Philippines (4.80%) < down
5) Iran (3.38%) < UP
6) Korea, Republic of (3.20%) < down
7) Romania (2.48%) < up
8) United States (2.31%) < up
9) Sri Lanka (2.17%) < down
10) United Kingdom (2.06%) < DOWN

Top 1 (China) down by ~ 1.5%, 2nd is up by ~1.5%.... fooling the masses?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2002/immigration/immigration_5.html

[clubbin714]

I am tired of people especially in Californians screaming about immigrants, about the language they speak and forcing our "god" down there throat.

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could argue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak Spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak Spanish and force anyone speaking English in those areas to learn Spanish or move out?


The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

[Sip]

Originally posted by anileve Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not.

Very very true! Some of you guys may have already heard about this example ... of how University of North Carolina's average Geography graduate from their undergrad program now makes $300,000 per year.

Whooo hooooooo ... I wanna be a geography major at UNC

But the strange thing is that they didn't lie. As a hint, Michael Jordan was a geography major in his college days

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by clubbin714 I am tired of people especially in Californians screaming about immigrants, about the language they speak and forcing our "god" down there throat.

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could argue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak Spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak Spanish and force anyone speaking English in those areas to learn Spanish or move out?


The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

I doubt whether or not the country being found on Christianity has anything to do with immigration.

With that said, the idea that we are a nation of immigrants therefore we should open all our borders and dilute, sounds silly to me.

Technically speaking every nation is a nation of "immigrants". What's the point with that? There is none.