Islam by the end of 21st century

[loseyourname]

That's like saying that homosapiens were not always the majority, since before them were dinosaurs! Or that we are not in the majority now since birds, mice, fish, xxxxroaches, etc, all outnumber us. Neanderthal man was a completely separate species from us.

Homo sapiens is not the majority species on this planet, as far as I know. My point is only that a group of people associated with each other by whatever arbitrary trait they may share - be it common descent, religion, ideology, season tickets to Lakers games - has no right to all of the land in their region that they do not actually own, nor do they have the right to say who can or cannot move onto or purchase that land. Only the owner of that piece of land has that right.

[dopey]

xxxx- I own my land-- but if I DONT PAY MY PROPERTY TAXES FOR A YEAR--I guess that wont be mine either---- nothing in this world is ours but our beutiful culture-

[Red Brigade]

I don't think Europe is becoming Muslim , because of the immigrantion of the people which beleive in Islam.It is true that the Muslims in Europe have a higher birth rate , but that rate won't be static in my opinion.
Usualy the muslims which have high birth rates are emmigrating in Europe from societies which were based on agriculture and keeping animals and generaly they lived a village farming way of life.In those closed societies having many kids is a capital, especialy if they are males.That is because the kids are extra hands in the farming bussines.They don't try to educate the kids and generaly having many kids is not an expense like in the modern western societies but an extra benefit.
So the reason that the muslims have high rates of birth is because of the way of life they used to live in before they emmigrated , and not because of their religion.I am sure they wont continue to have such high birth rates after the second or the thrid generations, since they will realise that kids are more or less an expense rather than a benefit, in the ''modern'' societies.Practicaly their kids will adapt in the ''modern western'' way of life and become part of the society.
By the way Europe is not really ''christian'' anymore.Few are those who are really relligious anymore.Christianity was always an obstacle in Europe and rather a benefit ,starting from the inquisitions to the Crusades.Fortunately the reinassance came , which was based in the ancient Greco Roman civilization and we went out from the Dark Christian times , when people like Galileo were not alowed to do researches and the Popes were controling Kingdoms and Empires.

[bell-the-cat]

When Christianity had Europe in the dark ages and medieval Islam kept the light of classical civilization alive by translating and keeping a library of Greek and Roman works, what happened? Christianity went in and massacred Islam.

This is just a PC myth. The texts you refer to, and many many more that were lost completely, were preserved in the libraries of the Byzantine empire until they were destroyed by those same Muslims you seem to inexplicably want to praise. What you are really saying is like saying that someone who burns down a library but happens to steal a few of the books allong the way, is interested in preserving civilization.

[Red Brigade]

This is just a PC myth. The texts you refer to, and many many more that were lost completely, were preserved in the libraries of the Byzantine empire until they were destroyed by those same Muslims you seem to inexplicably want to praise. What you are really saying is like saying that someone who burns down a library but happens to steal a few of the books allong the way, is interested in preserving civilization.

Those same Byzantians were closing all the schools which were still keeping alive the ancient hellenic culture thus all the books which they ''preserved'' were already stolen.Emperors like Zeno and Justinian,are one of the few of many that commited a cultural genocide to the Greeks, always directed by the Church.

[Anonymouse]

I don't see how a group of people attains the property rights to an entire region simply by virtue of having a majority. If a house is for sale and a black man wants to move into a predominantly white neighborhood, he should have that right. There is plenty of land that no one has any property right to, in that no one lives on it or uses it. You can't claim it as yours simply because people you are descended from used to live on it. That's just silly.

If a house is for sale it is based on the discretion of the owner as far as who should buy that house. When applied to peoples and cultures, it is a matter of discretion. If the Dutch people do not wish to allow immigration of Muslims into their lands, it is their right as a people. Many feel that way, but few can speak out due to the politically correct nature of their government and laws, in most of Europe that proscribe "hate speech" or are labeled "racist". I remember after the Theo Van Gogh incident, the Dutch bombed mosques in response, which was not even reported in many of the press.

[Anonymouse]

Those same Byzantians were closing all the schools which were still keeping alive the ancient hellenic culture thus all the books which they ''preserved'' were already stolen.Emperors like Zeno and Justinian,are one of the few of many that commited a cultural genocide to the Greeks, always directed by the Church.

There are alot of preconceptions about Islam, and Christianity. Both advocated peace and love, however, both fell short of it in their practice. In the process many people morphed it to mean things it didn't, and alot of people have a misconception of Islam from what it advocates, to the instances where, like Christianity, it deviated from its goal, often times thanks to the media.

Islam did preserve many of the Western texts from the classical ages. Islam also tolerated "people of the book" such as Christians or Jews, contrary to what dopey stated. The Turks for example left Armenians alone for the most part from the Jannissaries because Armenians had converted to Christianity before the time of Mohammed and Islam, thus were exempted. People like the Slavs who became Christians after Mohammed, were not spared and not seen as "true Christians" thus most of the Jannissaries came from that segment of the population. Islam has not been without its fundamentalism, no different than many militant Christians, so let's not simply tar and smear Islam as a "fundamentalist religion" that believes in violence.

As far as you referring to the Medieval Europe as "dark" it shows a gross ignorance of Medieval history. It was not "dark". When people describe the past or certain events and eras in history as being one thing or another, they tend to make history static. That is ahistorical as it reduces history to a mere point in time, which it is not. Therefore, to look at Medieval Europe as "dark" ignores all the other richness of that society. Too many people have preconceptions, assumptions, and prejudices from the present that clog our understanding of history, whether it is Christianity or Islam. When you denigrate an entire history as "dark" you ignore all the advances it made in architecture, agriculture, and philosophy such as the revival and adaptation of Roman law and classical texts by the Scholastics by people like St. Thomas Aquinas who combined Aristotelian reason with Christianity. The entire concept of the university as we know it today, is entirely a Medieval invention. What is more bothersome than anything are people who reduce history to a point in time and only focus on those trivial which help push their own agendas and preconceptions.

We don't have to pretend that everything was wonderful in the Middle Ages, and that there were no ecclesiastical abuses as well as secular, just like we don't have to pretend Islam was all about bliss and had no blood, but we shouldn't reduce history to one or the other.

[Red Brigade]

There are alot of preconceptions about Islam, and Christianity. Both advocated peace and love, however, both fell short of it in their practice. In the process many people morphed it to mean things it didn't, and alot of people have a misconception of Islam from what it advocates, to the instances where, like Christianity, it deviated from its goal, often times thanks to the media.

Islam did preserve many of the Western texts from the classical ages. Islam also tolerated "people of the book" such as Christians or Jews, contrary to what dopey stated. The Turks for example left Armenians alone for the most part from the Jannissaries because Armenians had converted to Christianity before the time of Mohammed and Islam, thus were exempted. People like the Slavs who became Christians after Mohammed, were not spared and not seen as "true Christians" thus most of the Jannissaries came from that segment of the population. Islam has not been without its fundamentalism, no different than many militant Christians, so let's not simply tar and smear Islam as a "fundamentalist religion" that believes in violence.

As far as you referring to the Medieval Europe as "dark" it shows a gross ignorance of Medieval history. It was not "dark". When people describe the past or certain events and eras in history as being one thing or another, they tend to make history static. That is ahistorical as it reduces history to a mere point in time, which it is not. Therefore, to look at Medieval Europe as "dark" ignores all the other richness of that society. Too many people have preconceptions, assumptions, and prejudices from the present that clog our understanding of history, whether it is Christianity or Islam. When you denigrate an entire history as "dark" you ignore all the advances it made in architecture, agriculture, and philosophy such as the revival and adaptation of Roman law and classical texts by the Scholastics by people like St. Thomas Aquinas who combined Aristotelian reason with Christianity. The entire concept of the university as we know it today, is entirely a Medieval invention. What is more bothersome than anything are people who reduce history to a point in time and only focus on those trivial which help push their own agendas and preconceptions.

We don't have to pretend that everything was wonderful in the Middle Ages, and that there were no ecclesiastical abuses as well as secular, just like we don't have to pretend Islam was all about bliss and had no blood, but we shouldn't reduce history to one or the other.

denigrate an entire history as "dark" you ignore all the advances it made in architecture, agriculture, and philosophy 

True we should not ignore the advances which were made by those few brave alchemists and other various scientists, which were hiding from the monks and the church because they would have been accused for herecy and other such paranoic things,to continue their experiments.
It was not coincidence after all that as soon as Europe became predominantly Christian , the Medieval Times begun and that's the very reason that those times are called Dark.Now regarding Islam , i am not defending it ,since it the same pish as Christianity.Religions are made to control the people and they do it effectively untill today.

[Anonymouse]

denigrate an entire history as "dark" you ignore all the advances it made in architecture, agriculture, and philosophy 

True we should not ignore the advances which were made by those few brave alchemists and other various scientists, which were hiding from the monks and the church because they would have been accused for herecy and other such paranoic things,to continue their experiments.
It was not coincidence after all that as soon as Europe became predominantly Christian , the Medieval Times begun and that's the very reason that those times are called Dark.Now regarding Islam , i am not defending it ,since it the same pish as Christianity.Religions are made to control the people and they do it effectively untill today.

This is again a misconception. The alchemists didn't do much in terms of advancement wasting their time trying to find the best way to arrive at gold. Again you are ignoring the advancements in agriculture, in architecture such as Gothic Cathedrals, in philosophy, such as Thomism, which united Aristotelian logic with theology, and also, the establishment of what we now know as the university, which I assume you attend. Heresy (spell it right) was only a minor part of Medieval history and mostly took off during the Inquisition. Religions are not made to control people. People are made to control people. Whether it is religion or any other ideology such as the virulent nationalism and socialism you subscribe to, are meant to control people. It's hard for you to not come off ignorant on the subject when all your views of the Medieval times are based on prejudices from the present.

[Red Brigade]

This is again a misconception. The alchemists didn't do much in terms of advancement wasting their time trying to find the best way to arrive at gold. Again you are ignoring the advancements in agriculture, in architecture such as Gothic Cathedrals, in philosophy, such as Thomism, which united Aristotelian logic with theology, and also, the establishment of what we now know as the university, which I assume you attend. Heresy (spell it right) was only a minor part of Medieval history and mostly took off during the Inquisition. Religions are not made to control people. People are made to control people. Whether it is religion or any other ideology such as the virulent nationalism and socialism you subscribe to, are meant to control people. It's hard for you to not come off ignorant on the subject when all your views of the Medieval times are based on prejudices from the present.

This is again a misconception. The alchemists didn't do much in terms of advancement wasting their time trying to find the best way to arrive at gold. 

How they could after all from the moment they have holy Church persecuting anyone who is against their rules by preaching ''Beleive and don't investigate.''

Again you are ignoring the advancements in agriculture, in architecture such as Gothic Cathedrals, in philosophy, such as Thomism, which united Aristotelian logic with theology, and also, the establishment of what we now know as the university 

I repeat for the second time that you are right that we shouldn't ignore that there were some advancments as well.One can only compare how much the people advanced during the pre Medieval times in Europe and during the Medieval times in Europe and will understand why they are called Dark times in every history book by the vast majority of the historical community.