EU-Turkey: A Full Membership Or A "Privileged Partnership?"

[Anonymouse]

Well, since you seem like a person who is unable to show an intellectual ability or a clever argument, I don't have a willingness to discuss with you. Only turning around racist sterotypes which you created to feel yourself better...I stated your community's miserable situation clearly above. If you have a serious opposition to what I said then express it clearly. Otherwise I don't have a desire to ridicule your personal miserable situation anymore.

It is precisely what I say that bothers you which is why you keep responding and I wouldn't be surprised if you respond again. It is precisely why you will never debate or discuss the facts, all the while whining at the supposed lack of intellectual ability of others to discuss. When people here have tried discussing with you, you have conveniently resorted to the same old nonsense of whining about "communitys miserable situation". Therefore, how can anyone engage in a discussion with someone who is bankrupt emotionally and morally, and in fact, lacking the intellectual candor he accuses other of lacking? To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

[karakitap]

It is precisely what I say that bothers you which is why you keep responding and I wouldn't be surprised if you respond again. It is precisely why you will never debate or discuss the facts, all the while whining at the supposed lack of intellectual ability of others to discuss. When people here have tried discussing with you, you have conveniently resorted to the same old nonsense of whining about "communitys miserable situation". Therefore, how can anyone engage in a discussion with someone who is bankrupt emotionally and morally, and in fact, lacking the intellectual candor he accuses other of lacking? To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

Anonymouse, I really don't have a desire to fool you anymore. The reason why I want to quit is simple, because you are boring. You are one of the typical ordinary member of your community who grow with Turkish hatred and you are parroting those garbage about Turks are evil, etc. which I discussed them with people in this forum who are more clever and intellectual than you already, and it is really boring to start with those garbage again with you. You have to show some shine, some brilliance to start again those xxxxs instead of swearing as "you are pigs,etc." Red Brigade was more promising than you, so please start either try to communicate, show some intellectual ability (at least preliminary), talk about some real facts, or don't start again that "Turks ar Asian, barbar, evil, bloodthursty,..." Otherwise, I have no desire with little rasict pimpled teens like you.

[Red Brigade]

Anonymouse, I really don't have a desire to fool you anymore. The reason why I want to quit is simple, because you are boring. You are one of the typical ordinary member of your community who grow with Turkish hatred and you are parroting those garbage about Turks are evil, etc. which I discussed them with people in this forum who are more clever and intellectual than you already, and it is really boring to start with those garbage again with you. You have to show some shine, some brilliance to start again those xxxxs instead of swearing as "you are pigs,etc." Red Brigade was more promising than you, so please start either try to communicate, show some intellectual ability (at least preliminary), talk about some real facts, or don't start again that "Turks ar Asian, barbar, evil, bloodthursty,..." Otherwise, I have no desire with little rasict pimpled teens like you.

This thread was about Turkey and the EU and yet you still havent even made a single comment about your country and the topic.Stay on topic when you post or depart.If you want to talk about Armenians and or whatever you want, go open your own thread about it and stop destroying every thread with irrelevant to the topic pish.

[Anonymouse]

Anonymouse, I really don't have a desire to fool you anymore. The reason why I want to quit is simple, because you are boring.

If I am boring then why do you keep coming back? You keep whining about how I am boring and racist and you are going to quit, yet you keep responding. Hypocrisy abounds.

You are one of the typical ordinary member of your community who grow with Turkish hatred and you are parroting those garbage about Turks are evil, etc. which I discussed them with people in this forum who are more clever and intellectual than you already, and it is really boring to start with those garbage again with you. You have to show some shine, some brilliance to start again those xxxxs instead of swearing as "you are pigs,etc." Red Brigade was more promising than you, so please start either try to communicate, show some intellectual ability (at least preliminary), talk about some real facts, or don't start again that "Turks ar Asian, barbar, evil, bloodthursty,..." Otherwise, I have no desire with little rasict pimpled teens like you.

It seems you are guilty of the same thing you accuse Armenians of being. You accuse Armenians of being "obsessed with Turkish hatred", yet you yourself are victim of your same accusation as you are victim of your own paranoia of supposed Armenian hatred. When you cannot discuss the facts you can always fall back on your usual "Armenians are obssessed" or "Armenians are hateful". For someone who talks about intellectual abilities you sure display the least candor.

As far as your attempt at trying to insult me by referring to me as "rasict pimpled teens", that was amusing. I never knew you were capable of such intellectual might.

[TomServo]

Karakitap, why are you so concerned with Armenians? You always ask people on this forum why they're so preoccupied with Turkish affairs, yet here you are on an Armenian message board.

[karakitap]

pffff, whatever...

[Siamanto]

Gunduz Aktan: Realities and politics (1)

TDN
Thursday, June 16, 2005

OPINIONS

Turkey's relations with the US have been disrupted. In addition, our EU
membership is in jeopardy. It is in the face of these realities that
the government is conducting its policies; however, it is refraining
from revealing in all clarity these realities to the Turkish public.

Gunduz AKTAN Turkey's relations with the United States have
been disrupted. In addition, our European Union membership is in
jeopardy. It is in the face of these realities that the government
is conducting its policies; however, it refrains from revealing
in all clarity these realities to the Turkish public. Under the
circumstances, we have to conclude that the government must be
maintaining the old policies regarding the United States and the EU
without any change. The result is that Turkey projects the image of a
country conducting its foreign relations from a position of weakness,
a country where the reality is too frightening -- and death like --
to be admitted in public.

There is no chance anymore of our country becoming an EU member in
the near future. Everybody -- except for a few Europeans who are wary
of the possibility of Turkey distancing itself from Europe -- openly
admits this fact. Meanwhile, there are those leftists-turned-liberal
intellectuals in Turkey who seem to have concocted a certain brand of
"ideology" by mixing their ignorance about foreign policy issues with
an obsession for EU membership. If we were to act the way they wanted
us to we might suffer additional losses on top of not being able to
become an EU member.

Our chances of EU membership had dimmed a lot even before the
referenda in France and the Netherlands. The conditions Papadopoulos,
emboldened by his veto rights, put forth for a "solution" in Cyprus,
the possibility of a Greek veto on the Aegean issues looming on the
horizon, the possibility that Turkey's EU membership drive would be
blocked by the outcome of the French referendum if Turkey "denied" the
Armenian genocide claims, and the way the EU demanded that Turkey grant
the Kurds and the Alawis collective minority rights was turned into one
of the Copenhagen political criteria via the new Accession Partnership
Agreement were all unacceptable from Turkey's standpoint, anyway.

The proposed EU constitution was defeated, and this has practically
destroyed Turkey's chances for EU membership. The EU was an "elite"
project and it was at the initiative of those elites that our drive
for membership had progressed. However, in the referenda in France
and the Netherlands, people voted against the "choices made by the
elites," that is, against the "excessive" enlargement of the EU and
"Turkish accession." In this new era, the peoples of the member
countries will carry more weight than in the past. Furthermore, the
CDU-CSU coalition that is expected to come to power in Germany and
French presidential candidate Sarkozy declared their opposition to
Turkish membership in the EU, turning this issue into an election
platform even before these referendums were held.

Under the circumstances, there are three main possibilities. The
government could act as if nothing has changed and the Turkey-EU
talks would formally begin on Oct. 3. Germany would not object to
that, but it would slow down the negotiating process to a great
extent. The French efforts would be fruitful and the proposal to
give Turkey "privileged partnership" as opposed to "full membership"
would prevail as the goal of the negotiations. Alternatively, the
talks would be held in the framework defined by the EU's Dec. 17,
2004 conclusions, which enables the negotiating process to end in
privileged partnership rather than full membership.

There is another path. Turkey could accept the proposed privileged
partner status right from the start; however, the government may not
be prepared to pay the political price that this would entail. The
government may be unwilling to let itself be blamed unjustly for such
a failure after striving so hard for EU full membership. Furthermore,
Turkey may not gain from privileged partnership. The moment we say
we accept the proposed privileged partnership, the contents of the
"package" may all of a sudden evaporate.

Here's another alternative. Turkey could ask the EU to confirm its
pledge it made towards Turkish full membership. If we cannot get a
favorable reply, we can, of our own free will, call for a postponement
of the accession process. For some time we would follow the in-house
developments of the EU and the moment we decide that conditions are
more favorable we can seek a resumption of the accession process. There
may be various things to be gained from taking this path. Above all,
we would no longer be pushed around. Being "unwanted" in the EU is
not only humiliating but also a factor that arouses Turks against
those countries that do not want us to join. In other words, due to
our not being able to join the EU, our relations with the West in
general and with the EU countries in particular could be disrupted
in a way that would be hard to repair. Therefore, we can take a step
to halt this deterioration.

The EU accession talks are quite different than "classic" diplomatic
negotiations. If Turkey went ahead with "open-ended" accession
talks with the EU, there could be a high price to be paid. Firstly,
we would have to channel all our energy into the EU accession talks
when we should be focusing on the resolution of the country's major
problems. Turkey would be undertaking an economic burden -- which
Turkey would not be able to meet if Turkey cannot become a full member
-- if Turkey adopted the Acquis and began implementing the standards
that this involves.

More importantly, we would have to solve a number of problems (first
Cyprus and then the Aegean issues) according to the wishes of the
Greek/Greek Cypriot side. It would be against Turkish interests
especially if the Turkish Cypriots joined the EU -- in the absence
of Turkish membership in the EU -- based on the Annan plan or some
other arrangement. That would also be in violation of the 1960 Cyprus
agreements. Once excessive concessions are made it would be impossible
to take these back later.

-----------
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[Siamanto]

Gunduz Aktan: Realities and politics (2)

TDN
Saturday, June 18, 2005


OPINIONS

The outcome of the referenda held in France and the Netherlands has
created a crisis atmosphere in the EU, plunging into jeopardy further
EU enlargement in general and Turkish membership in particular. For
this reason the rational policy for Ankara to pursue would be to seek
suspension of Turkey's accession process -- until conditions improve
and the process can be resumed -- rather than heading for an ambiguous
privileged partnership

Gunduz AKTAN

The outcome of the referenda held in France and the Netherlands has
created a crisis atmosphere in the EU, plunging into jeopardy further
EU enlargement in general and Turkish membership in particular. For
this reason the rational policy for Ankara to pursue would be to
seek suspension of Turkey's accession process -- until the conditions
improve and the process can be resumed -- rather than heading for an
ambiguous privileged partnership. Meanwhile, Turkey should refrain
from taking irreversible steps on issues such as Cyprus, the Aegean
and the Southeast.

In the days to come, while the EU will be preoccupied with finding a
way out of its own crisis, the CDU-CSU coalition, which will likely
come to power in Germany, can be expected to oppose, together with
France and the Netherlands, Turkish membership in the name of the
will of their people.

Already the French press is trying to "prove" that Turkey is not
ready for accession talks, using every opportunity to this effect
in an exaggerated manner. The way the police used force against
the demonstrators on Women's Day is still being criticized in
France. New issues are immediately added to the "repertoire" of
the French press, such as the opening of unlawful Koran courses, the
presidency and the headscarf issue and the resumption of clashes in the
Southeast. Germany, meanwhile, is discovering the "Armenian genocide."

Now, on top of all this, we hear an even more "profound" argument on
the need for saving Turkey from Turks. There are those who write in
serious-minded newspapers such as Le Monde that the AKP government
should not be permitted to control Turkey -- thanks to the liberties
EU membership would provide -- and replace the country's republican
regime.

In reality, there is another factor that could be all the more
important regarding Turkish membership: how the EU would overcome
the crisis: the proposed EU constitution, which is basically the
sum total of the founding treaties and includes a few modest steps
towards a federation. In addition, even that much has met with the
"nationalist" reaction of the peoples. In the referenda the people
rejected the elites' supra-national aspirations for the EU. Due also to
the effects of economic hardships and the radicalization of the Muslim
diaspora in the EU, the question of national identity rose to the
foreground. Under the circumstances, not only geographical enlargement
but the EU's political integration may have reached its limits.

Tomorrow's EU will take shape based on the "common denominator"
that is to emerge between Britain, which is against further political
integration, and the continental powers such as France, Germany, the
Netherlands and Austria, which are against further enlargement. In
other words, an EU incapable of further enlargement and integration
is appearing on the horizon.

For Turkey it may still be considered important to be a member of
that kind of EU in order to participate in the EU's decision-making
mechanisms. However, even for that, the member countries would have
to sharply alter their current stance and opt for the "enlargement
can take place if integration is not going to happen" kind of
attitude. Such a change is not impossible over time.

Liberal circles have especially made the basic mistake of forgetting
all about the fact that powerful EU circles harbor historical
prejudices against Turkey. They thought that if Turkey complied with
the Copenhagen criteria, that would suffice to make Turkey an EU
member. They even embraced the rhetoric that even if Turkey would not
be able to join the EU, the accession process would help modernize the
country. Yet the policy to be adopted when dealing with a prejudiced
interlocutor should be quite different from the one to be used when
dealing with a "normal" one. In the former case one has remember that
objections to Turkish membership stem from prejudice. As a result,
one has to pursue a much more confrontational policy. If one were
to be afraid of pursuing such a policy and opted for an "I will
do whatever you tell me" kind of stance, one would be bound to be
continually criticized in an exaggerated manner, be confronted with
extra demands and found to be inadequate in the end.

On the other hand, it is vitally important to know why exactly we want
EU membership. A country would bound to be rebuffed by EU members
if it sought EU membership with the fear that it would not be able
to stand on its feet without help from others, that it would not be
able to solve its problems through its inner dynamics, that the EU
would be the savior, and that any kind of sacrifice should be made
for EU membership. No one would admit an infantile population of 70
million into its ranks.

Therefore, a government desiring to make Turkey an EU member should
prove that Turkey has the will and the ability to solve its problems
without necessarily joining the EU. Although this seems paradoxical,
only an administration capable of proving that can ensure Turkey's
EU membership.

-----------
Copyright 2005, Turkish Daily News. This article is redistributed with
permission for personal use of Groong readers. No part of this article
may be reproduced, further distributed or archived without the prior
permission of the publisher. Contact Turkish Daily News Online at
http://www.TurkishDailyNews.com for details.
-----------

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[Siamanto]

Karakitap, why are you so concerned with Armenians? You always ask people on this forum why they're so preoccupied with Turkish affairs, yet here you are on an Armenian message board.

There's an excellent "French" saying - I believe that the origin is Arabic - that perfectly describes karakitap:
"The dogs bark, the caravan continues its journey."
("Les chiens aboient, la caravane passe")

Let him bark, we'll continue our journey!

[karakitap]

I agree, continue to live in your diasporan dreamworld and make us and all the world ridicule with your fantasies.