So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

[TomServo]

This thread became a flame war.

[winoman]

race - not really any such thing - except to racists

http://www.trinicenter.com/sciencenews/raceandgenetics.htm

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Lancaster/

“Race” is a Fiction, Racism is Real

Although ongoing discussions of “race” in scientific circles and in popular science have been far more muted than discussions of gender and sexuality, recent postings in The New York Times and elsewhere probe a longstanding trip-wire in public sphere discourses, spinning the discredited line that “race” is a viable genetic concept, and casting all exceptions to this claim as being politically (not scientifically) motivated.19 Arguments currently being aired thus sidestep the longstanding consensus among biological anthropologists that the five or six familiar geographic races do not usefully capture human phenotypic or genotypic variations.20 To make a long argument short: Biologists have had far better results using a technique called “multivariate analysis” to map the distribution of a species’ traits over a geographic territory.21 This technique has the advantage of recognizing an important—though often mysterious—feature of all systems of classification: There’s little that’s objective and much that’s arbitrary about the work of classification. The number and shape of geographical populations one identifies will thus depend on the criteria one employs in making distinctions. But even this technique, which produces dozens or scores of geographically-based “sub-groups” rather than five or six “sub-species,” scarcely seems applicable to human beings in the wake of ages of empire and migration.

Many of the current efforts by geneticists and journalists to rehabilitate long-discredited ideas have been notoriously imprecise, invoking average regional phenotypic variations (between, say, Scandinavians and Southern Italians) or ethnic variations in the propensity for certain diseases to support the validity of racial categories. Actually, regional or ethnic variations of this sort undermine the idea that broad typologies based on five or six racial categories are scientifically or medically useful. What they show, once again, is that phenotypic and genotypic variations are gradual, ingrading, and multi-dimensional.

Efforts to revivify race as a scientific concept have often been framed in terms of the supposed medical benefits a racialized genetics might have for African-Americans.22 But “genetic diseases” are not “racial” (or even “ethnic-regional”) diseases: they are genetic risks for diseases, which are sometimes unevenly distributed among various groups. Sickle cell anemia, for instance, disproportionately affects the descendants of populations who lived in Malarial zones. This means an elevated risk for Americans whose ancestors came from parts (not all) of sub-Saharan Africa; it also implies an elevated risk for Americans whose ancestors lived in some Southern Mediterranean areas. Can there, then, be special drugs for African-Americans (or whites), as a recent study has claimed?23 Undoubtedly, certain alleles are associated with responsiveness to certain drugs; and some of these alleles will be unevenly distributed amongst people of different ancestries. But this implies that drug treatments ought to be based on a person’s allele, not on his or her “race.” Using “race” as a substitute for “allele” in this case is tantamount to malpractice. Now, as over the past fifty years, a proper understanding of the relationships between populations, genetics, and heritability turns any practical or scientifically informed conversation away from conceptions of “race” and toward far more nuanced understandings of physical variation.

More to the point: The elevated health risks (heart disease, hypertension, and diabetes) that are typically invoked in these discussions are, in America, diseases of poverty with known environmental causes. Loose talk about genetic factors—or worse yet, racial genetic factors—thus serves to steer public conversation away from topics like social stratification and the actuarial consequences of unequal access to basic health care. But that’s where this long train of developments began: with unsystematic and ultimately unscientific talk about how genes guide such complicated cultural matters as risk-taking, sexual desire, family structures, and more. Genetic racialism is but the last in trail of a sorry lot. In all cases, genomania gives a picture-perfect snapshot not of science but of ideology—which is to say: It effects the conflation of social acts with natural facts.

http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/amp601115.pdf

After sifting
through decades of data on cranial shapes, skin color, hair
texture, and now allelic variation, contemporary race scholars
have concluded that no combination of physical characteristics
can be used to define race because human biological
traits vary continuously and nonconcordantly.

Contemporary
molecular genetic data show that humans are not
naturally divided into four or five discrete racial categories.
Most genetic variation is within any racial category. Only
a tiny percentage of the genetic variation can be found
between groups that could be described as different races,
and this variation is no more significant in defining human
groups than is other, within-race genetic variation. Genetics
can provide some information about ancestry, but ancestry
may or may not correlate well with a person’s race.

[winoman]

This thread became a flame war.

Yeah and who started it - if not in this thread in other recent ones and who have nothing to push but negativity and slander? I commented factually and the ugly cat and mouse duo made it personal. Mouse has been doing such for years - not just with me - but with nearly everyone. He just loves pot shots and put downs and is - IMO - the single greatest reason why people leave this forum and why new ones aren't more interested in joining. I think he has pretty much killed this forum. And the cat is just a pathetic excuse for a human who has nothing betetr to do then to go after others (individuals and ethnic groups - notivce he never has anything positive to say about anyone or anything - and is quite anti-Armenian - continually) because of his bittneress over being such a failure in life - socially and profesionally. This forum would be far better off without them.

[Anonymouse]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

Again - if you argue race based on supposed biological differences - then I would assume that the Science of biology applies.

What are you talking about? Do you know what fallacy I was referring to? First of all, there is no evidence that the majority of the scientific community believes race isn't real. Second, it is definitely those who are the most influential and wield the most influence, that would claim race isn't real, the media not excluded. Third, many scientists could believe race privately, but for fear of being ostracized would trumpet the party line. This doesn't mean anything aside from the fact that science is a social institution and can be tainted with.

You have posted concerning this very belief (or some variation - usually a put down of non-whites...or some desperate attempt to equate being Armenian with being European - because you consider this more prestigeous and such) in this and in other forums.

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's usually wise to not attempt to. At least, that is what humility is about. But of course, arrogance and ignorance are the twins you sleep with. I have always maintained the inequality of peoples, and never have I mentioned Armenians are Europeans. European is a geographical term old man. Armenians, however, are Caucasian, or white.

Well dips hit I am an Anthropologist. So please explain to me how a bantu skeleton - for which males often well exeed 6-7ft tall and a Pygmy - ussually less then 5 feet - are somehow more alike then the average European skeleton (if there is such a thing - an average or typical vs quite a bit of variation) - etc. And these are just physically obsevable phenomonon. When one looks at DNA variation we find practically as many differences between - for example - nearly any two random Africans (not of the same tribe or family) then we do between some random person from Africa as someone from Asia. There are swaths of genetic driven characteristics that crisscross continents and peoples - with peoples in certian areas sharing certain traits (and mutations etc) - but not others. There is no possibility to accuratly catagorize people into "races' in any consitent way that makes any scientific sense.

Now you're an anthropologist? What happened to you being a movie producer? In reality you're just a stay at home dad, aka Mr. Mom. But that isn't the point.

Do you know anything about genetics or allele patterns? Allele patterns differ across different groups within different geographic locations. Your famous and repeated argument that there are more differences, or variation among two people from the same race, than say, between some random African and someone from Asia, is based on faulty data gathering of gene frequencies. Such data can result when scientists choose to measure many particular gene frequencies which are similar in all races, but fail to measure those gene frequencies which do vary widely between the races.

Have you seen that movie, "White Men Can't Jump"? Well, it's true. Asians can't jump either. Blacks can, which is why they dominate in some sports. The reasons for this are that compared to whites, blacks have narrower hips giving them a more efficient stride, and wider shoulders, less body fat and more muscle. Their muscles include more fast twitch muscles which produce more power. These differences give blacks an advantage in sports like boxing, basketball and sprinting, but their heavier skeletons and smaller chest cavities limit performance in other areas like swimming.

Furthermore, the different races have different hormonal levels, with blacks having the highest testosterone. Higher levels of testosterone explains why blacks are generally more aggressive, have more instances of violent crime, are more sexually promiscuous, and experience sexual maturation at an earlier age than whites or Asians.

[Anonymouse]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

I almost forgot to include this tid bit of information. Scroll down to where it says 'Racial Determination'. I guess this means the government is racist.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric1.htm

Racial Determination

A human hair can be associated with a particular racial group based on established models for each group. Forensic examiners differentiate between hairs of Caucasoid (European ancestry), Mongoloid (Asian ancestry), and Negroid (African ancestry) origin, all of which exhibit microscopic characteristics that distinguish one racial group from another. Head hairs are generally considered best for determining race, although hairs from other body areas can be useful. Racial determination from the microscopic examination of head hairs from infants, however, can be difficult, and hairs from individuals of mixed racial ancestry may possess microscopic characteristics attributed to more than one racial group.

The identification of race is most useful as an investigative tool, but it can also be an associative tool when an individual's hairs exhibit unusual racial characteristics.

Caucasoid (European)
Hairs of Caucasoid or Caucasian origin can be of fine to medium coarseness, are generally straight or wavy in appearance, and exhibit colors ranging from blonde to brown to black. The hair shafts of Caucasian hairs vary from round to oval in cross section and have fine to medium-sized, evenly distributed pigment granules.



Mongoloid (Asian)
Hairs of Mongoloid or Asian origin are regularly coarse, straight, and circular in cross section, with a wider diameter than the hairs of the other racial groups. The outer layer of the hair, the cuticle, is usually significantly thicker than the cuticle of Negroid and Caucasian hairs, and the medulla, or central canal, is continuous and wide. The hair shaft, or cortex, of Mongoloid hair contains pigment granules that are generally larger in size than the pigment granules of Caucasian hairs and which often appear to be grouped in patchy areas within the shaft. Mongoloid hair can have a characteristic reddish appearance as a product of its pigment.



Negroid (African)
Hairs of Negroid or African origin are regularly curly or kinky, have a flattened cross section, and can appear curly, wavy, or coiled. Negroid pigment granules are larger than those found in Mongoloid and Caucasian hair and are grouped in clumps of different sizes and shapes. The density of the pigment in the hair shaft may be so great as to make the hair opaque. A Negroid hair shaft exhibits variation or apparent variation in diameter because of its flattened nature and the manner in which it lies on the microscope slide. Twisting of the hair shaft, known as buckling, can be present, and the hair shaft frequently splits along the length.

[skhara]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

Mouse,

Caucasians usually dominate the high-jump event. Although blacks are overwhelmingly dominate the long jump.

By the way, one does not have to be a scientist to observe racial differences not only based on phenotype but also behaviors, abilities, patterns, etc...

The overwhelming majority of common folks can see these things without any kind of gene research or skull studies.

[Anonymouse]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

Mouse,

Caucasians usually dominate the high-jump event. Although blacks are overwhelmingly dominate the long jump.

By the way, one does not have to be a scientist to observe racial differences not only based on phenotype but also behaviors, abilities, patterns, etc...

The overwhelming majority of common folks can see these things without any kind of gene research or skull studies.

I agree. But in the fantasy world of winoman, how dare you suggest racial differences.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

...never have I mentioned Armenians are Europeans. European is a geographical term old man. Armenians, however, are Caucasian, or white.

European is also a cultural term - and under that term Armenians are certainly European, aren't they.

[TomServo]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

The United Kingdom isn't European.

[Anonymouse]

Re: So its been discovered that all white people are just mutants

European is also a cultural term - and under that term Armenians are certainly European, aren't they.

Well, if you define it as such, indeed they are.