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[tunot]

Re: notes / comments

Ara's solutions speak to us at the individual level, otherwise they would generate propaganda.

We must work on our selves, unit by unit, to generate an intelligent group of people.

When Ara criticizes Armenians, he doesn't really tell Armenians what the solution might be... Those "solutions" are "what if"s, they are merely designed to show an alternate path that can only be followed by one's own choice, and I stress the "one". If it's more than one person, it's a big bonus.

Perhaps asking for a solution for Armenians as a whole was a stupid question. We are human beings before Armenians. We should learn to grow as human beings before taking part in our heritage, otherwise we'll do nothing but harm it further.

Of course, our ideas of what it means to be human may differ, but I think it's important to ask this question before dealing with heritage.

No, no, no... Yes, we need to work on an individual level as well, but we have plenty of "good Armenians." Unfortunately, most of them are being driven away from the Armenian community. Why do you think Ara constantly uses the words: bishops, bosses, and dupes?

As to Mouse: no, I obviously did not misunderstand you. You're still repeating the same garbage, because you are not taking into consideration the percentage being born and the percentage assimilating.

[Anonymouse]

Re: notes / comments

No, no, no... Yes, we need to work on an individual level as well, but we have plenty of "good Armenians." Unfortunately, most of them are being driven away from the Armenian community. Why do you think Ara constantly uses the words: bishops, bosses, and dupes?

As to Mouse: no, I obviously did not misunderstand you. You're still repeating the same garbage, because you are not taking into consideration the percentage being born and the percentage assimilating.

You cannot bother to understand anything beyond the paradigm you are in.

The percentage being born and the percentage assimilating is precisely what is taken into consideration. There are fewer Armenians being born now, and with a higher rate of them being diluted. That is the problem. Don't worry, no one is asking you to "pump pups", since that would not only be a disservice to you, but also to the poor pup.

[Anonymouse]

Re: notes / comments

No, no, no... Yes, we need to work on an individual level as well, but we have plenty of "good Armenians." Unfortunately, most of them are being driven away from the Armenian community. Why do you think Ara constantly uses the words: bishops, bosses, and dupes?

As to Mouse: no, I obviously did not misunderstand you. You're still repeating the same garbage, because you are not taking into consideration the percentage being born and the percentage assimilating.

Will you put down your cheerleading pom poms for once and stop cheering Ara as he is some god sent truth and just work on yourself instead of looking toward others and all their shortcomings?

[tunot]

Re: notes / comments

You cannot bother to understand anything beyond the paradigm you are in.

The percentage being born and the percentage assimilating is precisely what is taken into consideration. There are fewer Armenians being born now, and with a higher rate of them being diluted. That is the problem. Don't worry, no one is asking you to "pump pups", since that would not only be a disservice to you, but also to the poor pup.

You still don't get it, do you? Let me repeat it one more time:

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE HOW MANY ARE BORN WHEN MOST ARE ASSIMILATING?

Capiche?

[tunot]

Re: notes / comments

Will you put down your cheerleading pom poms for once and stop cheering Ara as he is some god sent truth and just work on yourself instead of looking toward others and all their shortcomings?

The only reason you don't get Ara is because you have little to no experience in Armenian affairs. When you have discovered more news sources than Hetq, when you have read beyond a few kiddie poems by Toumanian, when you have sat down with bosses, bishops, politicians from Armenia, and their dupes, you may begin to understand where we are coming from. Namely, that our people and our numbers are just fine. Our leadership isn't, and that is what is causing so many Armenians to flee from the homeland (honestly, why did your parents flee, you patriotic Armenian?) and the overwhelming majority in the diaspora to assimilate. Is it that hard to understand? Now, instead of blaming perfectly sane individual Armenians, start to do something at your local cultural center and see how far you get.

[Anonymouse]

Re: notes / comments

You still don't get it, do you? Let me repeat it one more time:

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE HOW MANY ARE BORN WHEN MOST ARE ASSIMILATING?

Capiche?

Apprently, you are the one that doesn't "get it". The difference is that the numbers are shrinking and the assimilation is only making it worse. Therein lies the problem. I, unlike you, can see how both interwine, whereas you are too myopic to even see anything beyond your little dry morally unambiguous world and that is only a reflection of your shortcoming.

The only reason you don't get Ara is because you have little to no experience in Armenian affairs. When you have discovered more news sources than Hetq, when you have read beyond a few kiddie poems by Toumanian, when you have sat down with bosses, bishops, politicians from Armenia, and their dupes, you may begin to understand where we are coming from.

Is that a fact or what you like to believe you think you know about me? If I didn't know any better, I'd say it sounds like the usual fecal matter that is produced by Tunot Manufacturers, Inc. When did I ever claim to have sat down with politicians and their dupes? And what does that have to do with being well versed in Armenian affairs? That is what we call a non sequitur line of reasoning. And what do you know about the websites I read? All you have done is for the tenth time you have recycled that same insult about Toumanian and Hetq as if that somehow elevates your argument anymore than what you have already done, namely wish deaths of other people who disagree. None of that changes the myopic chir that you are. And for once, will you pull your head out of Ara's ass?

Namely, that our people and our numbers are just fine.

No they are not. Only fools would claim that the numbers are fine. You claim you are so well versed in Armenian affairs and I am not, yet you have not taken a simple look at the statistics of Armenia's demographics? You like to brag about how I or anyone else knows nothing but you (and Ara) know everything yet you don't know that simple truth? I hope, for your sake, you are not intentionally being obtuse to have something to argue.

Our leadership isn't, and that is what is causing so many Armenians to flee from the homeland (honestly, why did your parents flee, you patriotic Armenian?) and the overwhelming majority in the diaspora to assimilate. Is it that hard to understand?

So now me and my family for leaving Armenia are not loving Armenia enough. Who has denied that the end result of the diaspora is assimilation and that they left because of the dire corruptions and economic chaos? Furthermore, who has ever denied that the "politicians, or bosses or bishops" are somehow positive for Armenia? You don't have to meet them to read about their depravity over news.

Now, instead of blaming perfectly sane individual Armenians, start to do something at your local cultural center and see how far you get.

And you have the gall to sit here and speak to me about blaming other individuals? That is all you and Ara have done and are capable of doing and all that you will ever do. You are nothing more than hypocrital wind bags only able to criticize the shortcomings of other Armenians and the ones that actually try and do something, as opposed to those like you, trapped forever in stasis. And your types are only able to thrive in that arena. The only thing I have argued for is for us to only worry about ourselves and educate our youngsters and the next generation for the sake of Armenia, but how could you care if you think negatively of 'popping pups' and only consumed with criticizing and showing problems but not actually doing anything except bragging about how your Armenian is flawless and mine is not. Stop being the Armenian pseudo-intellectal critic constantly criticizing everyone else and start to worry about yourself.

[Armenian]

Re: notes / comments

Hi guys

[tunot]

Re: notes / comments

Apprently, you are the one that doesn't "get it". The difference is that the numbers are shrinking and the assimilation is only making it worse. Therein lies the problem. I, unlike you, can see how both interwine, whereas you are too myopic to even see anything beyond your little dry morally unambiguous world and that is only a reflection of your shortcoming.

It's simply not true! Our numbers have only increased over the last twentieth century. Just because your family is not a breeding-machine, does not mean that there are not plenty of other Armenian families that are compensating. What we need is an environment where this sort of breeding comes naturally and is not forced on one. We have missed it ever since we were conceived as a nation and we are missing it today. That is why our numbers are relatively low, and not because we are not making enough babies or because we have suffered a genocide. Stop blaming individual Armenians, like myself, for chosing not to have babies, because that is what you are implicitly and explicitly doing. And it's not helping us as a nation.

Is that a fact or what you like to believe you think you know about me?

From what you write, I don't think I want to know more!!

When did I ever claim to have sat down with politicians and their dupes?

You never have, therefore you're clueless.

And what does that have to do with being well versed in Armenian affairs?

Everything.

So now me and my family for leaving Armenia are not loving Armenia enough. Who has denied that the end result of the diaspora is assimilation and that they left because of the dire corruptions and economic chaos? Furthermore, who has ever denied that the "politicians, or bosses or bishops" are somehow positive for Armenia? You don't have to meet them to read about their depravity over news.

Clearly your parents left because they wanted a better life. Apparently life in Armenia was not good enough. Am I incorrect?

You are nothing more than hypocrital wind bags only able to criticize the shortcomings of other Armenians and the ones that actually try and do something, as opposed to those like you, trapped forever in stasis.

Not of other Armenians. Of Armenians who are standing in the way of our progress as a nation. How often does this need to be repeated? You're the one who is blaming innocent Armenians, wishing to turn them all into breeding-machines. I never did anything like that and I don't recall Ara ever doing it either.

And your types are only able to thrive in that arena. The only thing I have argued for is for us to only worry about ourselves and educate our youngsters and the next generation for the sake of Armenia,

Educate them what???

[tunot]

Re: notes / comments

Who has denied that the end result of the diaspora is assimilation and that they left because of the dire corruptions and economic chaos? Furthermore, who has ever denied that the "politicians, or bosses or bishops" are somehow positive for Armenia? You don't have to meet them to read about their depravity over news.

If you're not denying it, then do something about it!! Because that is what is standing in the way of our progress. You should know better.

but not actually doing anything except bragging about how your Armenian is flawless and mine is not.

Since I was a quarter of your age...

[Anonymouse]

Re: notes / comments

It's simply not true! Our numbers have only increased over the last twentieth century. Just because your family is not a breeding-machine, does not mean that there are not plenty of other Armenian families that are compensating. What we need is an environment where this sort of breeding comes naturally and is not forced on one. We have missed it ever since we were conceived as a nation and we are missing it today. That is why our numbers are relatively low, and not because we are not making enough babies or because we have suffered a genocide. Stop blaming individual Armenians, like myself, for chosing not to have babies, because that is what you are implicitly and explicitly doing. And it's not helping us as a nation.

You are the one that has constantly harangued everyone about how in the diaspora the ultimate goal is assimilation. And while that is correct, how do you think assimilation occurs? It doesn't occur just by forgetting ones language but also simultaneously by forgetting ones blood. Often times, it is those that forget their language, are otaramol, who in turn end up marrying odars.

So considering Armenia has a low birthrate because of its economic and political conditions, and considering the high emigration rate, any sane individual can see Armenia is experiencing a population implosion. And what happens to those Armenians who leave Armenia? They will eventually subside, that is why you only see half of the moon and not the full moon.

And I blame individual Armenians like yourself because you are just as much part of that problem. You are just one Armenian who says "nah I won't have pups it's too demeaning, I'll just live out my life only to myself and leave the burden of that on anthter Armenian". Meanwhile, another Armenian is saying the same thing, casually removing the burden of her shoulders onto those of others. And if you multiply this chir that is no doubt a product of Armenian exposure to Western liberalism and feminism, and if everyone thinks the same way only out to care for their self-gratifications, then what becomes of us then? You say numbers don't matter, but eventually they do, for who will be left to hold the torch of culture you and Ara like to so much talk about?

From what you write, I don't think I want to know more!!

You never have, therefore you're clueless.

Everything.

It's called a non-sequitur line of reasoning. You only like to drill it to make yourself believe there is a correlation when there really isn't. You would like to believe that you having met these "politicians, bosses and bishops" gives you some moral high ground and therefore makes you more well versed in Armenian affairs than those who have not met these so called people. However, one is not dependent on the other and unless you can demonstrate otherwise, your non-sequitur still stands. This reminds me of another poster here who claimed that, only if one has directly been to France, can one then talk about France, anyone else who talks about France who has never been to France should not do so because they have never been there and therefore are not qualified to talk about France, even if they read about France or have heard about it from other people who have been there. This is akin to that.

Clearly your parents left because they wanted a better life. Apparently life in Armenia was not good enough. Am I incorrect?

Thank you for that Captain Obvious!

Not of other Armenians. Of Armenians who are standing in the way of our progress as a nation. How often does this need to be repeated? You're the one who is blaming innocent Armenians, wishing to turn them all into breeding-machines. I never did anything like that and I don't recall Ara ever doing it either.

I am not blaming innocent Armenians. I only blame those who I rightfully see as those who hinder the progress of our nation. Is that not what you said? You probably clear saw Armenian and see me as those who hinder progress. As you can see, the line is very vague and it is usually up to the discretion of each individual as to who is stinting progress. That is why, instead of finger pointing at everyone, as Armenian intellectuals love to do because they have a genetic predisposition, start to worry about yourselves. But there is a long line of Armenians who have loved to criticize other Armenians, and that aphorism that every Armenian is a king or general is very much true. From Abovyan, to Zarian, to Sevak, all Armenian mental marvels, but who could not stay true to their Armenian selves. While they liked to criticize and 'do intellectual stuff' and always critical of Armenian society and lauded Armenian patriotism, they were the first to abandon it and marry odars, including stupid morons like Levon Ter-Petrossian.