What do you guys think? Armenian w/ non-Armenian?

[hyerebel]

I tried and couldn’t find any threads for this and I am sorry if the is a similar one out there, if so please send me the link.

What do you think about a relationship based on an Armenian with non-Armenian. Do you think it’s a good idea?
Please give some advice if you have the experience on this.

Thank you

[sad_eyes]

This particular topic has been created in MANY threads. Its quite debatable too, from what I have read. But as I mentioned in a few other forums, my opinions are still grounded.

Bottom line is this. I feel that a relationship with an armenian and an otar can work out. They can get married. Some choose to do so, others dont. I respect both, regardless of my situation. It all depends on the individual, weither or not they can be strong enough to accept and acknowledge the fact that there will be many complications in marrying someone who is "different." Some armenians are not too traditional so this may be an easy thing to accomplish, however some are more so. But really it comes down to what thier specific belifes, values and what their hearts teach them, are. I see how in many ways, it would be easier on both individuals to marry someone of their own culture, because try as they may, know one can change who they are or where they come from. There would be a better understanding of their culture and how they choose to run things in their homes/lives, and more importantly, a better understanding of each other. I support interracial marriages, I think they are just as beautiful, sacred and "normal" as an marriage between two people of the same race. All I know is that there will be complications, but if two people love each other enough to accept and embrace the difficulties and do their best to learn with each other through good and bad then I believe that an interracial marriage can work. Its about adapting.

In my personal experiance,as far as marriage is concerned, we both wanted too, but in the end because I did not meet the "requirements" of a traditional armenian wife, it could not be. The same thing had happened to me when I was 17. Although it wasnt marriage it was that we wanted to be together. His name was Abbas and he was a muslim. My most recent relationship is a swtich off. With Abbas, he wanted to be with me and marry me however I chose not too because of my parents wishes. They did not approve because he was muslim and not from our culture. Now, with Levon, things have changed. His family wouldent approve because I am not armenian (this didnt matter to him, but to his family, yes)and because I am not a virgin. As I mentioned 1000 times, I love everything about him and his culture, but loveing and learning it in most cases will not be sufficiant. Heartbreak is a pain in the ass (for lack of a better term) and getting involved with someone who isnt of your race or culture is very very complicated. It doesnt matter how much in love you may feel or be, the fact that you two are different will ALWAYS burden its way through and arouse problems. BUT, if two people are strong enough and love each other enough...............anything is possible. Love, real love, is a precious and sacred gift, if anyone is lucky to find it, and have it mutual, then I say go for it, but hold on, its going to be a bumpy ride.

[ArmoBarbi]

Dating for fun and socializing with otars is fine, but speaking in terms of a serious romantic/sexual relationship I dissaprove - Especially if there is the possibility of marriage in the end. No Armenian who loves his/her nation would do it. No Armenian who loves our culture would have a mixed family and raise mixed children. Yes, sometimes the half Armenians turn out to be good Armenians, but that is only their own acheivement. I wasnt raised to care about Armenia, I had to find it on my own and value it all the more for that. As part of my love for our nation I dream of having an Armenian family and raising my children to love being Armenian as I do. Any real Armenian would want the same in my eyes.

Disclaimer: I understand that real love can happen in any case, and its better to be happy with an Otar than to sacrifice that happiness for Nationalism. I fully recognize that what other Armenians chose to do with their lives is their business, and only give my opinion when asked such as in this thread.

[loseyourname]

Hate to say it, but I despise nationalism in all of its guises. Cultural appreciation is one thing, but some of you take it to a pathological level. So much of your life shouldn't be determined by the last name you were born with. You act as if there is some boundary in genetic space, beyond which sequence variation marks someone as different from you, and within which they are marked as the same. Is the claim to being within this genetic space that you arbitrarily round "Armenia" into really more a claim than the claim to simply being human or even to simply being you? I wish sometimes that I could experience the world like Hellen Keller, defining people by their actions and beliefs, not by what they look like and what language comes out of their mouth.

Silly me.

[karoaper]

Hate to say it, but I despise nationalism in all of its guises. Cultural appreciation is one thing, but some of you take it to a pathological level. So much of your life shouldn't be determined by the last name you were born with. You act as if there is some boundary in genetic space, beyond which sequence variation marks someone as different from you, and within which they are marked as the same. Is the claim to being within this genetic space that you arbitrarily round "Armenia" into really more a claim than the claim to simply being human or even to simply being you? I wish sometimes that I could experience the world like Hellen Keller, defining people by their actions and beliefs, not by what they look like and what language comes out of their mouth.

Silly me.

It all comes down to having children. If you knew for sure that together with a non-Armenian (I don't like the word otar) spouse you could raise children who would be no less Armenian (culturally) than with an Armenian spouse and would be a full continuation of the Armenian culture and race, then there is no problem whatsoever. However, in lue of the fact that we're close to being in the red book of endangered cultures and most of us already live outside Armenia with the risk of losing our ties to our culture, the need to have children with other Armenians is not rooted in racism or even nationalism, but in the desire to see our tribe survive the next 1000 years and God willing more. We don't want to be the next Assyrians, a proud yet dwindling spec on this planet.

[messiah33]

I tried and couldn’t find any threads for this and I am sorry if the is a similar one out there, if so please send me the link.

What do you think about a relationship based on an Armenian with non-Armenian. Do you think it’s a good idea?
Please give some advice if you have the experience on this.

Thank you

i call it psycho expirence!
ther is no different men what you choose lady only by her nationality?
love is a one thing one day relationshep is other ! my advice to you !!!!!
if you feelling somthing specail to some one take control and dont judge her by her nationality !!!
" this is called love and love will take us up in the fresh air"

[Siamanto]

Hate to say it, but I despise nationalism in all of its guises. Cultural appreciation is one thing, but some of you take it to a pathological level. So much of your life shouldn't be determined by the last name you were born with. You act as if there is some boundary in genetic space, beyond which sequence variation marks someone as different from you, and within which they are marked as the same. Is the claim to being within this genetic space that you arbitrarily round "Armenia" into really more a claim than the claim to simply being human or even to simply being you? I wish sometimes that I could experience the world like Hellen Keller, defining people by their actions and beliefs, not by what they look like and what language comes out of their mouth.

Silly me.

loseyourname,
In French I would have said that you're completely " à côté de la plaque!" You have completely missed sad_eyes' point! It is not about Nationalism, and NOBODY mentioned genetics: what gave you that impression? sad_eyes summarized it wisely and nicely: it's about compatibility, ease of understanding and common sensitivities, concerns, goals and ideals. It's far more pragmatic in nature than abstract principles and theories.
When putting together a team for a given project you don't hire somebody simply because he/she is intelligent and there's something called Equal Opportunity Employment! Of course, that may have its weight in your choice, but you can't base it only on such theoretical principles.
Of course, it can happen that an Armenian born person be more compatible with a non-Armenian; all depends on the particular person's experience of life and exposure to cultures or sub-cultures. But, for the most part an Armenian would more easily relate to an Armenian.

[loseyourname]

loseyourname,
In French I would have said that you're completely " à côté de la plaque!" You have completely missed sad_eyes' point!

If that is the case, it should not come as a surprise. I did not even read sad eye's post, and was responding primarily to ArmoBarbie.

It is not about Nationalism, and NOBODY mentioned genetics: what gave you that impression?

No Armenian who loves his/her nation would do it. No Armenian who loves our culture would have a mixed family and raise mixed children. Yes, sometimes the half Armenians turn out to be good Armenians, but that is only their own acheivement.

That is what gave me the impression. She speaks first of marrying Armenian out of a love for her nation - that is nationalism. She then says that a true Armenian would not raise a mixed child, which is a genetic concept. Skirt around it with justifications all you want. Obviously one should marry based on compatibility, and if one is more compatible in general with his countrymen than with foreigners, then it is likely he will marry a countrymen. It is the ultimatums presented that trouble me, the assertion that no Armenian should ever marry a non-Armenian out of duty to their nation. I guess I just don't feel much devotion to an abstract idea like a nation. It is my family and those who love me that have helped me in life and that I have a duty to. Not those who speak the same language and eat the same food as me. A happy coincidence that is, but I owe them no more than I owe the rest of humanity.

I was watching The English Patient yesterday, and one part in particular rings poignant in my mind. Katherine Clifton is dying in the cave because her lover Count Almasy has been detained for having the wrong last name and for being of the wrong nationality in a time when everyone was expected to fall into allegiance with what was perceived to be their "own people." She writes in her final note to him:

We are the real countries, not the boundaries drawn on maps with the names of powerful men.

Is an Italian, a Hungarian, a Russian really so foreign as to eliminate the possibility of compatibility? Perhaps for you it is. If so, marry to your heart's content. For me, it is not, and I will marry to my heart's content, and, despite not being Armenian, I will continue to not appreciate dictums that state no person of nationality X could ever in good conscience marry a person of nationality Y. Marry the personality, not the nationality, the person, not the nation. For that is what we are - persons.

[Siamanto]

If that is the case, it should not come as a surprise. I did not even read sad eye's post, and was responding primarily to ArmoBarbie.

Unfortunately, I had the impression that your message was about the topic of the thread!
For the record, in " It is not about Nationalism, and NOBODY mentioned genetics: what gave you that impression?"
"what gave you that impression?" applies only to "NOBODY mentioned genetics." I apologize for the ambiguity.

In any case, once developed, it may be that ArmoBarbi's - "Not Barbie," as she clearly states - views are close to sad_eyes'????? Maybe!

[ArmoBarbi]

I didn't really read Rachel's post either, but I have written to her on the topic before. I know pretty much where she stands. Yes, I personally care about my children being Armenian, and yes I personally care that my husband shares my culture and my love for Armenia, but this is why I call myself a Nationalist. This is not an objective point of view, and I never claimed it to be.

Loser, I understand your point of view, and I admire it in a way. I actually find my Nationalism to be a bit limiting. I do my best not to take it too far. I feel I am in a good place in terms of tolerance, while being true to my personal desires.

Siamanto, I didnt mention genetics specifically before, but I see how loser drew the connection.