does age matter?

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: does age matter?

People like Anna Nicole Smith are dirty and disgusting people but what you said was just disturbing.

I couldn't care less.

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

I’ll make this part short; I did not oversimplify or characterize anything; I just gave an overall view of their common thoughts on this issue, except yours that was a bit different and the reason why I did not include it. Maybe you need to re-read the previous posts; most of them more-or-less were in agreement on this particular issue (that age doesn’t matter).

Briefly said, you simply repeated yourself without any references; in that case, I will have to simply repeat - in texto - my previous reply:
"For clarity and transparency, it's always a good practice to have explicit references and quotations. Regardless, I had and continue to have the impression that you have oversimplified and a bit "characterized" what others have said i.e. you made them sound as 'dreamers.'"

You assumed wrong. No, “my” understanding of age could be/could not be linear and that depends on the individual, but for instance, in a relationship leading to marriage (union) and a bigger family, yes, chronological age does count.

Previously, you argued that being out of phase was the reason why two individuals of "non matching" chronological ages shouldn't be in a relationship; now, you're saying that even if they may (be in phase) they still shouldn't be in a relationship?

No, individuals do not necessarily age in a linear manner for which you listed some reasons; nonetheless, as sad as it might sound, aging doesn’t go without certain biological changes, which may lead to changes concerning the mood, the needs or … ‘The inner young man’ here is not capable of controlling such issues.

I know many teenagers who suffer of such issues and fifty year old who do not. Are teenagers who are not in phase with their peers - for instance, more developed - and/or are "biologically impaired" allowed to have a relationship with their peers? Are those teenagers allowed to have a relationship with their seniors???
Your views sound a bit scary to me because too coercitive, categorical and rigid.

LOL *is being satirical* Shall we develop tests - of course, standardized and universal enough to deny cultural diversity - to determine the "age fitness" of two individuals before they get involved in a relationship?
1- A psycho-sociological survey to determine the phase fitness and a database where they are stored such as public records; of course, available online 24/7
2- An instant chemical test - similar to the pregnancy test - that would determine the bio-chemical fitness; of course, available at any pharmacy or distributors - just like condoms. We'll carry one with us, just like condoms and there may be even a free one included in each box of condoms. Who knows?
I can imagine situations where one would say:
"I'm sorry, we can't start a relationship tonight because your fitness test has expired; but, on the bright side, I have a condom and we can have sex."
I'm sure that many would look forward for such situations.

Neither pressured, nor indoctrinated, it is just a feeling.

LOL, and could you explain how you came to the assumption that I was “influenced” by American “values”??? Is it because I’m not ‘interested’ in a 60 year old??

First of all, in my previous post, I did not imply that you are - or are not - indoctrinated or pressured. I don't know. However, what is the likelihood that an indoctrinated or pressured person would be aware of it and/or even admit it??? I let you guess.
Second of all, I was joking, but you exactly sound like the typical American in what seems as an emotional aversion and intransigence. Also, the lack of any convincing argument or explanation.
Third of all, my comments were not about your personal feelings, but what you did with them; they were about how you suggested them as universal guidelines. Personal feelings are "absolute;" I take them as is and don't discuss them as long as they are acknowledged as subjective.

P.S. By the way, I noticed that the fitness threshold has been raised to 37???

I just checked and found out that Colette’s age difference with Willy (her first husband) was about 15 years old which is not that big. My talk is not about her likes.

OK. And??? Are you suggesting that somewhere between 15 and a fitness threshold age they get out of phase and become "biologically impaired" in a way that would systematically and completely change the feelings towards a person? Or maybe it would have been the case if Willy was "much older" than Colette??

By the way, just curious, what is "her likes" and not "her likes" and do they deserve a special treatment?

I do not exclude the possibility that they may be in a relationship for certain interest, do you?? I’m disfiguring their moral values??

I said that - and continue to believe - you initially excluded the possibility that it can be anything else but interest motivated and drive. Yes, that equates to disrespect of their feelings and it means disfiguring their moral values.
However, in this message, you seem to have moderated your view by admitting the possibility.

I do not exclude the possibility that they may be in a relationship for certain interest, do you?? I’m disfiguring their moral values?? Well, because I doubt if they have any, on this issue (according to what I have seen). Most of such cases I have encountered (till now) have given me that impression. And as you said, some of us believe in moral values.

First of all, I welcome the fact that from "it can only be" you have moderated to "most of such cases."
Second of all, considering the above and the fact that you seem to live in a community where people are with time unable to give to younger individuals; I will have to say that I'm glad to live elsewhere; of course, that's only a personal preference. Again, that is your personal experience that should not be considered of universal nature.

Third of all, do you think that "age matching" partners would have given more than the "biologically impaired and out of phase" old ones??


Most of all, relationships are about giving to each other - regardless on how it's done and what it means - and I hope that you will someday further embrace the possibility of diversity and individuality. It seems that you're moderating your views because you keep on raising the "threshold age" and agreeing to the possibility.

[Lucin]

Re: does age matter?

Previously, you argued that being out of phase was the reason why two individuals of "non matching" chronological ages shouldn't be in a relationship; now, you're saying that even if they may (be in phase) they still shouldn't be in a relationship?







I know many teenagers who suffer of such issues and fifty year old who do not. Are teenagers who are not in phase with their peers - for instance, more developed - and/or are "biologically impaired" allowed to have a relationship with their peers? Are those teenagers allowed to have a relationship with their seniors???
Your views sound a bit scary to me because too coercitive, categorical and rigid.

LOL *is being satirical* Shall we develop tests - of course, standardized and universal enough to deny cultural diversity - to determine the "age fitness" of two individuals before they get involved in a relationship?
1- A psycho-sociological survey to determine the phase fitness and a database where they are stored such as public records; of course, available online 24/7
2- An instant chemical test - similar to the pregnancy test - that would determine the bio-chemical fitness; of course, available at any pharmacy or distributors - just like condoms. We'll carry one with us, just like condoms and there may be even a free one included in each box of condoms. Who knows?
I can imagine situations where one would say:
"I'm sorry, we can't start a relationship tonight because your fitness test has expired; but, on the bright side, I have a condom and we can have sex."
I'm sure that many would look forward for such situations.








First of all, in my previous post, I did not imply that you are - or are not - indoctrinated or pressured. I don't know. However, what is the likelihood that an indoctrinated or pressured person would be aware of it and/or even admit it??? I let you guess.
Second of all, I was joking, but you exactly sound like the typical American in what seems as an emotional aversion and intransigence. Also, the lack of any convincing argument or explanation.
Third of all, my comments were not about your personal feelings, but what you did with them; they were about how you suggested them as universal guidelines. Personal feelings are "absolute;" I take them as is and don't discuss them as long as they are acknowledged as subjective.

P.S. By the way, I noticed that the fitness threshold has been raised to 37???







OK. And??? Are you suggesting that somewhere between 15 and a fitness threshold age they get out of phase and become "biologically impaired" in a way that would systematically and completely change the feelings towards a person? Or maybe it would have been the case if Willy was "much older" than Colette??

By the way, just curious, what is "her likes" and not "her likes" and do they deserve a special treatment?







I said that - and continue to believe - you initially excluded the possibility that it can be anything else but interest motivated and drive. Yes, that equates to disrespect of their feelings and it means disfiguring their moral values.
However, in this message, you seem to have moderated your view by admitting the possibility.







First of all, I welcome the fact that from "it can only be" you have moderated to "most of such cases."
Second of all, considering the above and the fact that you seem to live in a community where people are with time unable to give to younger individuals; I will have to say that I'm glad to live elsewhere; of course, that's only a personal preference. Again, that is your personal experience that should not be considered of universal nature.

Third of all, do you think that "age matching" partners would have given more than the "biologically impaired and out of phase" old ones??


Most of all, relationships are about giving to each other - regardless on how it's done and what it means - and I hope that you will someday further embrace the possibility of diversity and individuality. It seems that you're moderating your views because you keep on raising the "threshold age" and agreeing to the possibility.

No, I didn’t say that. I’m going to rephrase it. My understanding of age could be/ could not be linear depending on individuals who do not necessarily age in a linear manner (some age in a linear manner and some do not). The intellect, maturity and intelligence of individuals don’t depend necessarily on their age but in a relationship leading to marriage and later children, the chronological age should also be taken into consideration. and this not being the sole criterion for establishing a relationship, other important elements such as understanding, balance of giving and receiving and… count as well.


So being in phase is not the only criterion to establish a relationship. Any relationship in order to be fulfilling requires a balance of giving and receiving, a balance of energy and I believe the huge age difference could be an obstacle to this. The exceptions put aside, an average old man is at a different development level, emotionally, socially or sexually which seems normal to me. ( it is not limited to the old but common in their age,).
But I don’t suggest that being in a relationship with an age matching partner would necessarily lead to happiness, and make a relationship successful.
I think the explanation would also cover your questions.

An indoctrinated or pressured person would at least be aware of her attraction to or interest in such relationships (aware of an inner tendency). If you think that might be my case, you assume wrong.




I never said ‘ it can only be’… ‘Moderation’? You initially didn’t get the sarcasm (with a big grin) of my statement related to ‘Donald trump’; I was being a bit sarcastic there and not referring to all couples in such relationships but again the majority.( that’s why I said ‘chem batsarum’. ) Nonetheless, most of the cases I have encountered have given
me the same impression.
And I don’t remember suggesting anything as a universal guideline, Furthermore, whether I sound like an "American" or not, I’m not trying to convince.


Regarding the ‘threshold age’, thirty or thirty seven, doesn’t make difference for me but I hadn’t noticed that. (LOL) You are right, I should have said fifty three!

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

Yesterday, I watched Fassbinder's "Fear Eats The Soul" and it made me smile when I realized - after a few minutes - that it was about relationships, affection, giving, differences - including age - exclusion and inclusion in group dynamics. I sincerely recommend it and watch it with an open mind.

No, I didn’t say that. I’m going to rephrase it. My understanding of age could be/ could not be linear depending on individuals who do not necessarily age in a linear manner (some age in a linear manner and some do not). The intellect, maturity and intelligence of individuals don’t depend necessarily on their age but in a relationship leading to marriage and later children, the chronological age should also be taken into consideration. and this not being the sole criterion for establishing a relationship, other important elements such as understanding, balance of giving and receiving and… count as well.

You rephrased it in a way that agrees with what others have said previously. Nobody said that chronological age should not be taken into consideration; but, it was said that it may not be the determining factor and it should be considered in conjuction of other factors.

So being in phase is not the only criterion to establish a relationship. Any relationship in order to be fulfilling requires a balance of giving and receiving, a balance of energy and I believe the huge age difference could be an obstacle to this. The exceptions put aside, an average old man is at a different development level, emotionally, socially or sexually which seems normal to me. ( it is not limited to the old but common in their age,).

Again, nobody said that the age difference cannot be an obstacle; the families can be, friends can be - more often so, social standing, sociological background....and a myriad of other reasons. There are so many determining factors and the weight or contribution of each can vary from case to case, culture to culture, social class to social class etc. etc.
Furthermore, obstacles are a part of building together, whatever it is built.

It seems to me that you are trying to rationalize and I don't think that it is possible. For me, the criteria can only be vague, incomplete and somehow subjective such as:
1- What a person can and is willing to give me? And, in some cases, that others can't or are not willing.
2- What can I and willing to give a person? And, in some cases, that I can't or are not willing to give others.
3- What can I and am willing to accept from a person? And, in some cases, that I can't or not willing to accept from others. In fact, we 're not always comfortable in accepting what we're given.
4- What a person can and is willing to accept from me? And, in some cases, that others can't or are not willing to accept from me.
5-...

But I don’t suggest that being in a relationship with an age matching partner would necessarily lead to happiness, and make a relationship successful.
I think the explanation would also cover your questions.

What are you suggesting and if it contracdicts with what was stated by others, how - please include quotation?

An indoctrinated or pressured person would at least be aware of her attraction to or interest in such relationships (aware of an inner tendency). If you think that might be my case, you assume wrong.

First of all, I wouldn't be so sure. Denial is a subtly intervowen or mixable "substance" that can blend in and be hard to discern.
Second of all, I said:
"However, what is the likelihood that an indoctrinated or pressured person would be aware of it and/or even admit it???"
In other words, would they have the courage to admit it?

I never said ‘ it can only be’… ‘Moderation’? You initially didn’t get the sarcasm (with a big grin) of my statement related to ‘Donald trump’; I was being a bit sarcastic there and not referring to all couples in such relationships but again the majority.( that’s why I said ‘chem batsarum’. )
Nonetheless, most of the cases I have encountered have given
me the same impression.
And I don’t remember suggesting anything as a universal guideline, Furthermore, whether I sound like an "American" or not, I’m not trying to convince.

Whether you said it with sarcasm or not, from a logical point of view, the lack of other alternatives means that either you said nothing at all or you have said that you can't see it as a possibility. In a deabte, logic prevails.
To be more technical, if the proposition "unless there are some other interests playing a major role or he is a Donald Trump!" is of no or little validity then the statement
"I can't imagine how a woman, let’s say in her early twenties can be really attracted to or in love with someone 30 years her senior (unless there are some other interests playing a major role or he is a Donald Trump! )?"
Is either incomplete i.e. meaningless or simply says:
"I can't imagine how a woman, let’s say in her early twenties can be really attracted to or in love with someone 30 years her senior"

Regarding the ‘threshold age’, thirty or thirty seven, doesn’t make difference for me but I hadn’t noticed that. (LOL) You are right, I should have said fifty three!

LOL So 30 and 37 are both unacceptable, yet 15 - as your post - is (acceptable so what is that magical number that is less than 30 and more than 15?

[Anoush]

Re: does age matter?

Age doesn't matter. Unless it's more than 15 or 20 years.

I know these couple in N.J. the husband is a cute Italian American involved with the local town's government. He's a councilman and his wife is 19 years older than him and they are one of the most loving couples I know.

Other couples I perceive that they fool around or flirt notoriously; but these couple do not. Neither one does as they're into each other.

I am not saying that this works with everyone; but every now and than you see something like this and say hey... maybe age doesn't matter.

Unfortunately with Armenians though, forget it. All the Armenian guys want is a way younger girls. They would be in their forties and they sometimes want 14, 18, 22 years younger girls... not an older girl/woman.

Some women they age gracefully. Having good skin and a pretty face, sometimes they look 10-15 years younger. So in my opinion it should work.

[skhara]

Re: does age matter?

Unfortunately with Armenians though, forget it. All the Armenian guys want is a way younger girls.

Isn't this generalization? I'd say that's the case with men in general, but it hasn't much to do with age but with physical attraction which believe it or not plays a big part in these things.

[mariposa]

Re: does age matter?

Does mental age and mental age difference matter? Does mental age difference matter more than biological age difference? How important is each?

[skhara]

Re: does age matter?

Does mental age and mental age difference matter? Does mental age difference matter more than biological age difference? How important is each?

I'll try to work out a formula and sum up the totals.

[Anoush]

Re: does age matter?

Isn't this generalization? I'd say that's the case with men in general, but it hasn't much to do with age but with physical attraction which believe it or not plays a big part in these things.

Hello Skhara; You are right, I am generalizing. But I believe what I am saying is more say approx. 60+ percent stands correct. Physical attraction plays a great part with men when they meet a girl personally one on one; but on the internet they cannot see the attraction or anything. Just the words in black and white what is written. You can't feel the gestures and the humour and the warmth nor her chemical makeup of the person behind the screen. So I have noticed that mostly Armenian men they require a woman to be a heck of a lot younger than their own age. But what they don't know is that if it wasn't on the web, and if they have met a woman older than they are with great looks, talents, humour, warmth and the right chemical makeup; then it is possible that they may fall for her.

On the web though you don't know all that and they go by generalization too. Generalizing of only the age factor that the woman must be a heck of a lot younger than they are. That was my general point in matter.

[Anoush]

Re: does age matter?

Does mental age and mental age difference matter? Does mental age difference matter more than biological age difference? How important is each?

Hi mariposa;

You are quite right to ask that question. Mental age does matter a great deal. Someone could be 50 years old; but very childish with his mentality, behaviour and maturity. Some women would say that men usually don't grow up as much as women (maturity wise). I disagree. I have seen some very immature women in my time too.

Basically you cannot go by age. You have to judge and see a man you meet to figure it out yourself. Some guys could be 25 year olds but a great deal maturer than some 45 year old men.

A good way of learning and judging behaviours apart from living it; is either reading effective psychological books or having a few good sessions with a psychologist just to be educated. Sometimes it pays.