does age matter?

[Sip]

Re: does age matter?

That was a very interesting read. Can't say I agree with everything but it was an interesting take non the less. There are some other cool essays on his site too.

[axel]

Re: does age matter?

In fact, nowadays, even junior developers - due to their exposure to J2EE, or even J2SE and/or similar software development frameworks - have a more evolved view of IT than you do.

Siamanto:
one of the purposes of abstraction is hiding complexity.
people working at a higher "abstraction" level are no more intelligent than others. they are often dumber.
using abstractions is very different from creating new ones.

j2ee/j2se developers are not the cream of the crop, far from it.
most java developers are actually full blown retards paid to copy/paste boilerplate code.
I have seen "junior developers" "with exposure to J2EE" who didn't know about red black trees or lex & yacc. can you possibly call "playing with lego duplos" evolution?

out of curiosity, what's your professional/educational background?

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

In fact, nowadays, even junior developers - due to their exposure to J2EE, or even J2SE and/or similar software development frameworks - have a more evolved view of IT than you do.

Siamanto:
one of the purposes of abstraction is hiding complexity.
people working at a higher "abstraction" level are no more intelligent than others. they are often dumber.
using abstractions is very different from creating new ones.

j2ee/j2se developers are not the cream of the crop, far from it.
most java developers are actually full blown retards paid to copy/paste boilerplate code.
I have seen "junior developers" "with exposure to J2EE" who didn't know about red black trees or lex & yacc. can you possibly call "playing with lego duplos" evolution?

I totally agree with everything you have said - no exception; however, J2EE/J2SE junior developers may not be, for instance, as creative and sharp as someone capable of writing a parser/semantic analyzer using lex & yacc or comparable parser generation/development tools; but they have a more evolved view of IT because they think with more evolved concepts (and APIs) even when they are not capable of understanding the underlying "plumbing." To oversimplify, a view is defined - at least, in part - by the APIs and concepts - for the sake of simplicity, I'm ignoring methodologies and frameworks.

Also, though not relevant to the above, only few old school developers are able to develop a parser/semantic analyzer with lex & yacc i.e. most of what you have said applies to them as well. I think that the distribution of creative and sharp minds are comparable in both populations and is somehow irrelevant to my point.

out of curiosity, what's your professional/educational background?

Software architect - both Data and Technical Infrastructures. To help you better understand my perspective, I will add that I've been a firm believer in "MDA/MDSD" - even before MDA and UML existed - and automation/repeatability of software development and reusability/standardization of software artifacts. As necessary, I may expand on it when replying to your post in the other thread.

[Sip]

Re: does age matter?

Siamanto:
one of the purposes of abstraction is hiding complexity.
people working at a higher "abstraction" level are no more intelligent than others. they are often dumber.

I totally agree with everything you have said - no exception

So in other words, you are retracting your previous emotional outburst: "High Traffic airports or other comparable complex infrastructures also depend on nail, bolt, stone etc.; however, they - including CMOS components - are considered as challenges only by "mental dinosaurs" like you."

Nice to see that at least you eventually are able to see reason even though your initial gut reaction is to insult me without thinking about it a bit.

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

Siamanto, I will repeat in the hopes of you maybe getting it this time ... the real "mental dinosaur" is the one who is stuck at a certain level of abstraction and isn't able to see beyond his or her own level of expertise

LOL Helping you understand present day IT concepts and software development processes/standards seems as challenging as explaining how computers work to my Grandmother; I even tried to draw you a picture i.e. used a metaphor. One main difference is that my Grandmother does not make a fool of herself by pretending - or convincing herself - that she understands.
You seem to be comfortable in your cave, so why venture beyond it?

It is absolutely laughable that you would dismiss "micro-projects" in favor of your "grand IT projects" (i.e. by implication much more high-level and abstract) as some sort of justification for your superiority complex.

I can understand that present day IT concepts may be well beyond your understanding; but where is the intellectual challenge in grasping the fact that "not considering something as a challenge" is easily distinguishable from "dismissing it;" how come you can't even deal with such a straightforward distinction, such a basic concept?

So in other words, you are retracting your previous emotional outburst: "High Traffic airports or other comparable complex infrastructures also depend on nail, bolt, stone etc.; however, they - including CMOS components - are considered as challenges only by "mental dinosaurs" like you."

Nice to see that at least you eventually are able to see reason even though your initial gut reaction is to insult me without thinking about it a bit.

How did you come to that conclusion, caveman? I used to think that you're as evolved as a jurk and, apparently, I overestimated you. How much dumber can you get? You continue to surprise me. You're dumbness is beyond words, beyond pathetic.
You amaze me because I have hard time to imagine how someone can be as intellectually mediocre as you????
Just curious, did you buy your diploma online? You're a fraud.

[Sip]

Re: does age matter?

What the hell kind of answer is that? You completely side stepped the real issue and went back to insulting. How am I supposed to "reply" to any of this? And what does my "diploma" have anything to do with anything? Let us suppose I ordered it online. Let us even suppose I am a complete idiot and moron etc and all else you have been calling me. What does it have any bearing on how your "metaphor" has blown up in your face?

[Sip]

Re: does age matter?

but where is the intellectual challenge in grasping the fact that "not considering something as a challenge" is easily distinguishable from "dismissing it;" how come you can't even deal with such a straightforward distinction, such a basic concept?

Siamanto, insults aside, may I remind you that as Axel has said, and as you have completely agreed with him, by "not considering some things as a challenge" (while they clearly are as there are entire active research fields dedicated to them), you are abstracting them away and thus hiding their complexity. That is why by pretending that those building blocks that get your airport going are "not challenges" you are in effect "dismissing them" (and abstracting them away). That is fine and it is how you should proceed. But please, don't pretend you are somehow above those challenges and that somehow what you do at this higher level of abstraction is somehow more "difficult" than the lower layer tasks.

So far it sounds like you consider "grand IT projects" as THE direction in computer science while everything else is mere childs play. And of course the reality is far from it. As I have said before and will say again (a bit paraphrased), the TRUE science is the ability to see beyond these mere abstractions and see the big picture. I am just hoping that you will be able to make that step even though right now you are blinded by your emotional hate for me and just can't help yourself but to just keep throwing out insults.

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

What the hell kind of answer is that? You completely side stepped the real issue and went back to insulting. How am I supposed to "reply" to any of this? And what does my "diploma" have anything to do with anything? Let us suppose I ordered it online. Let us even suppose I am a complete idiot and moron etc and all else you have been calling me. What does it have any bearing on how your "metaphor" has blown up in your face?

LOL Are you that clueless or just playing the dumb? When do you think was the last time that your reply was of any pertinence?
Are you that obtuse? Why do you think that it's possible to have an intelligent and worthwhile conversation with you about IT/CS?

In any case, we rip what we sow.

[Siamanto]

Re: does age matter?

Siamanto, insults aside, may I remind you that as Axel has said, and as you have completely agreed with him, by "not considering some things as a challenge" (while they clearly are as there are entire active research fields dedicated to them), you are abstracting them away and thus hiding their complexity. That is why by pretending that those building blocks that get your airport going are "not challenges" you are in effect "dismissing them" (and abstracting them away). That is fine and it is how you should proceed. But please, don't pretend you are somehow above those challenges and that somehow what you do at this higher level of abstraction is somehow more "difficult" than the lower layer tasks.

So far it sounds like you consider "grand IT projects" as THE direction in computer science while everything else is mere childs play. And of course the reality is far from it. As I have said before and will say again (a bit paraphrased), the TRUE science is the ability to see beyond these mere abstractions and see the big picture. I am just hoping that you will be able to make that step even though right now you are blinded by your emotional hate for me and just can't help yourself but to just keep throwing out insults.

Please continue to believe in whatever your understanding allows; I'd rather spent more time with my Grandmother, it would be more productive and realistic.

[Sip]

Re: does age matter?

Why do you either run away or resort to name calling when facing serious questions? I have no doubt you will enjoy conversations with your grandma who will let you babble on and on without questioning some of your at times, very shaky statements.

FYI, my original challenge to you still stands. If you really think you can hold your own against me in a real challenge, my offer still stands. But at least have the decency to offer an alternative if you are going to call my proposal "childish". After all, aren't you claiming that what I propose doesn't pose much of a challenge to you, and hence, shouldn't it be trivial for you to address them?

PS: I hope you realize that claiming something doesn't offer a "real challenge" and running away is more of a testament to your weaknesses than your strengths.