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Flat Earth/Heliocentrism

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  • #21
    Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

    Originally posted by Siggie View Post
    Yes, that's why it doesn't make sense what he said about both the Sun and Earth orbiting each other. The Sun sufficiently warps spacetime that the other planets are always "falling towards it" (thus orbiting).

    Wasn't it last month that NASA obtained evidence of the curvature of spacetime caused by Earth's gravity, thus supporting relativity. Not that it was in doubt... it's the only thing that fits with the laws we've observed and it's been supported by new observation previously (just a step removed).
    For the Earth to be orbiting the Sun, the Sun would have to be stationary relative to the Earth's orbit and it isn't. Perhaps pictures will help.

    http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/barycenter/

    Speaking of not making sense.... how the hell can Earth's gravity affect spacetime? Do you even understand the difference between mass and gravity?
    Last edited by Siggie; 07-28-2011, 07:25 AM. Reason: fixed typo in my quoted text
    "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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    • #22
      Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

      Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
      For the Earth to be orbiting the Sun, the Sun would have to be stationary relative to the Earth's orbit and it isn't. Perhaps pictures will help.

      http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/barycenter/

      Speaking of not making sense.... how the hell can Earth's gravity affect spacetime? Do you even understand the difference between mass and gravity?
      You're playing games (and being rather condescending)... I used "gravity" instead of "mass" when explaining the same thing for the second time! Oh noes! Clearly that means I have no idea wtf I'm talking about! Duh! Nevermind that the rest of my post was correct and did illustrate a pretty accurate grasp of this in preceding posts.

      Earth's mass distorts spacetime and that distortion of spacetime is gravity.

      Believe me, I understand how it works. I state it plainly for the sake of simplicity (it is misleading to run around telling people "you're dumb if you think the Earth orbits the Sun... Do you even understand what gravity is?") and to make it accessible to all. Yes, the Sun moves too because all the other nearby mass pulls too. It's somewhat the same thing as the Earth and the moon. The Earth wobbles a bit and moves in a similar way, pulled by the moon's gravity. However, it's being incredibly nick picky and misleading to tell someone (I don't mean me) they're wrong if they say the moon is Earth's satellite or that the moon orbits the Earth and then not offer a clarification of what you mean by that. When you do that, it communicates rather obviously that your interest here is in "one uppance" and not in mutually beneficial dialogue or education.
      Last edited by Siggie; 07-28-2011, 07:40 AM.
      [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
      -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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      • #23
        Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

        Originally posted by Siggie View Post
        You're playing games of semantics (and being rather condescending). Earth's mass distorts spacetime and that distortion of spacetime is gravity.
        Semantics again? Yes, that's what Einstein's theory implied. However, I don't agree with it.
        "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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        • #24
          Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

          Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
          Semantics again? Yes, that's what Einstein's theory implied. However, I don't agree with it.
          Of course you don't. I can't resist this opportunity...

          Please explain to the rest of us dummies, how it is that Einstein's TSR is wrong? In other words... correct or at least point out the flaws that make you reject the entire theory.
          [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
          -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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          • #25
            Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

            Originally posted by Siggie View Post
            Of course you don't. I can't resist this opportunity...

            Please explain to the rest of us dummies, how it is that Einstein's TSR is wrong? In other words... correct or at least point out the flaws that make you reject the entire theory.
            For starters I don't agree that space and time is one and the same.
            "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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            • #26
              Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

              Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
              For starters I don't agree that space and time is one and the same.
              Why not? I asked for an explanation of what's wrong with the theory.

              Why can't we meaningfully talk about space without referring to time or vice-versa? They're already one in our everyday lives.
              [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
              -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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              • #27
                Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

                Originally posted by Siggie View Post
                Why not? I asked for an explanation of what's wrong with the theory.

                Why can't we meaningfully talk about space without referring to time or vice-versa? They're already one in our everyday lives.
                Time is an abstract measurement. Space is a 3 dimensional area which depicts the position of matter.

                Are we to agree that time and space had a beginning?

                Then what happened an hour before the beggining, and if space did not exist until a certain time, what space does it occupy? (something had to be there)
                "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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                • #28
                  Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

                  Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                  Are we to agree that time and space had a beginning?

                  Then what happened an hour before the beggining, and if space did not exist until a certain time, what space does it occupy? (something had to be there)
                  According to the Big Bang theory, many of the predictions of which have been borne out by observation (e.g., cosmic microwave background), spacetime did have a beginning, and there was nothing before it - neither space nor time.

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                  • #29
                    Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

                    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                    Time is an abstract measurement. Space is a 3 dimensional area which depicts the position of matter.

                    Are we to agree that time and space had a beginning?

                    Then what happened an hour before the beggining, and if space did not exist until a certain time, what space does it occupy? (something had to be there)
                    Time is abstract in what sense? Do you mean that time is relative because I think that was the point.

                    Space is 4d. The 4th dimension is time. You can't talk about space without talking about time. If I tell you I will be at the corner of X and Y St., would you be able to find me?

                    You're talking about something entirely different when referring to the beginning. It's not meaningful to ask what came before the big bang because there was no before, as Hawking illustrates by comparing this to asking "What's North of the North Pole?" Time was "born" in that "explosion" (read: expansion). By the rules of our universe, it seems like yeah, there had to be something there, but the rules governing our universe didn't exist independently of our universe. So, we can't expect them to hold outside of our universe. We don't know what set off this singularity, but not knowing that doesn't throw a wrench into the TSR. It still explains what happens in our universe well.
                    Last edited by Siggie; 07-28-2011, 09:50 AM.
                    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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                    • #30
                      Re: I am an Azeri and GAY. Not sure if feminine or masculine.

                      Originally posted by HotFizzixist View Post
                      According to the Big Bang theory, many of the predictions of which have been borne out by observation (e.g., cosmic microwave background), spacetime did have a beginning, and there was nothing before it - neither space nor time.
                      That's precisely my disagreement with the entire concept. Time is just an abstract measurement that we created to record sequences of events. Time as we understand it, arranges the order that events take place.
                      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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