Armenia and Byzantium

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

But honestly, what the hell do they use to wipe their asses? They should add this gem to the list of reasons why people should not buy goods made in Turkey.

Dude, they use their 'hands' - honestly. It's an Asiatic practice, the Mongols, the Chinese and the Koreans do the same. Food poisoning in Turkey is common and they are mostly related to fecal bacterium. In Turkish restaurants they have this thing called "kolonia" (cologne) made of lemon juice that they use to 'disinfect' their hands after you know what. So, if you happen to be in a Turkish restaurant and the waiter serving you smells of "Kolonia" - you know where he or she has been

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Wow thats funny as hell....

but careful Armenian, now there will be a dozen or so people in here trying to prove that Hurriyet is neither a prestigious nor widely-circulated newspaper within Turkey

But honestly, what the hell do they use to wipe their asses? They should add this gem to the list of reasons why people should not buy goods made in Turkey.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Great, haha I love it

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

why?

Well, it's a long answer. But to keep it short and smelly: It's because you people use your 'hands' to wipe your asses...

According to your "Hurriyet," the following are the differences between Greeks and Turks:

They have entered the EU.
We have not been able to.

They have gotten Greek Cyprus in too.
We have not been able to push Turkish Cyprus in.

They have become European Champions.
We have not.

They have hosted the Olympics.
We have not.

They have bought a bank from us.
We have not bought any of theirs.

They sell cotton to us.
We used to sell cotton to them.

They have 135 active companies here in Turkey.
We have 14 or so companies active in Greece......

Their males live to an average of 78.
Ours lives to an average of 67.

Their women generally see the age of 83.
Our women generally live at least a decade less.

6 out of every one thousand Greek babies die by the age of 5.
In Turkey 45 out of every thousand babies die by the age of 5.

The average Greek girl goes to school until age 18.
For Turkish girls? Age 11.

27% of Greeks know a foreign language.
3% of Turks do.

82% of the (Greek) population uses toilet paper. In Turkey? Only 8%.

But are we always behind? No! For example, the number of books printed annually by Greece, with a population of 10 million, and Turkey, with its population of 70 million, is EQUAL!

Source: http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/8...id=74&sz=14322

So, this goes to show you that it's not a good idea to shake hand with Turks

Just say no to Turkish-Armenian reconciliation...

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

You are objective, I accept your ideas as a Turk.

For you there are only two words to learn and remember: HAY DAT. Its Turkey’s death sentence for crimes your government and people have committed against millions of our innocent people, for the rapes and murders of our women, for the molestations and killings of our children… God might have mercy on you Turks, but I never will. May Vahagn bless my hands after I carve out your hearts with my knife!

[Behelit]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

As far as I'm concerned you are welcome here. I look at Greeks as a brotherly people. However, I do have complaints about Greeks, just as I have complaints about Armenians. As long as Greeks value their relationship with us Armenians, I value theirs.

Thank you Aper.Armenia and Greece are Brother Nations and like you said before i can not wait the day we become neighbors again.
We should then work together to straingt the borders of Europe.

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your honesty and civility. Incidentally, some Greeks insinuate that it was Armenians that more-or-less destroyed Byzantium. Apparently, these types of anti-Armenian rhetoric amongst Greeks come from Byzantine sources, both secular and religious.

I readed good sources i guess.The reason why i wanted to learn more about Armenia and Armenian people is in fact the Byzantium history.They were like the light of the Empire.Greeks acted really stupidly and selfish.I was rarelly impressed by my people.In fact i was really disappointed in them.Acting like Roman Emperors by killing eatchother for the trone while the people needed them.And i'm not even talking about the iconoclast/iconophile issue ....

When after a decades long agenda the Armenian Bagratid Kingdom was annexed by Byzantium in 1045 AD, the Byzantine leadership, fearing the potential of the Armenian military, disbanded the region's fifty thousand man army, considered to be one of the finest in the region. Couple of decades later in 1064 AD, when the Seljuks arrived at the gates of Ani (the Bagratid capitol), the Byzantine military garrison based there fled, abandoning the Armenian inhabitants. This was the opening of the first major gate into the Armenian Highlands. This was also the first death blow to Byzantium. Thereafter, city after city in Asia Minor would fall to the Turkic invasions.

Thank you for the clarrification

When you get a chance get your hands on Armenian sources regarding this topic. In the 11th century Byzantium would stop at nothings to make sure that the Armenian Highlands were depopulated of its native inhabitants. They attempted several military incursions but were defeated by Armenian forces. Realizing they could not defeat us militarily, they began resorting to blackmail, and political pressure. They pressured and blackmailed Armenian nobility to accept land offers far away from the Armenian Highlands. They murdered Armenian leaders, they bribed Armenian leaders. They also encouraged Seljuk incursions into Armenia. Just read the history.

If you have any good source too share i'm listing.I'm always ready to learn more.

Without doubt. I get very-very angry every time I think about what could have been had Armenians and Greeks cooperated in the middle ages. No Greek Genocide, no Armenian Genocide, no Ottoman Empire, no Turkey... Asia Minor would still be the center of civilization today, instead of the Turkic/Islamic cesspool that it is today.

I think it's better to look to the future.What we can do for our people and for our Nations now.Our Nations came back alive from ashes not so long ago and see where we are now.We get stronger every day.The Turks will pay for what they did to our ancestors sooner or later.It is just a matter of time.I just hope i will be alive to celebrate it.Like you said we must learn from our errors.Together we are stronger!

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

I just pointed this out because i think that it looked very negative.But that's maybe because i'm Greek
Let's be clear i'm not here to make troubles or so...

As far as I'm concerned you are welcome here. I look at Greeks as a brotherly people. However, I do have complaints about Greeks, just as I have complaints about Armenians. As long as Greeks value their relationship with us Armenians, I value theirs.

Armenians did part of the Byzentium Empire and give it his Greatest Glory.Armenians are the reason why the Empire lived hat long. Also it is good to say that the politic views of The City are not always the same then his habitants.

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your honesty and civility. Incidentally, some Greeks insinuate that it was Armenians that more-or-less destroyed Byzantium. Apparently, these types of anti-Armenian rhetoric amongst Greeks come from Byzantine sources, both secular and religious.

I never said they succeded in protecting it. Also Hovhannès Sembat gave Ani to Byzantium after his dead and it was not respected.Gagik II was put on the trone. What blackmail are yoy talking about ? Could you clarify this point , thank you.

When after a decades long agenda the Armenian Bagratid Kingdom was annexed by Byzantium in 1045 AD, the Byzantine leadership, fearing the potential of the Armenian military, disbanded the region's fifty thousand man army, considered to be one of the finest in the region. Couple of decades later in 1064 AD, when the Seljuks arrived at the gates of Ani (the Bagratid capitol), the Byzantine military garrison based there fled, abandoning the Armenian inhabitants. This was the opening of the first major gate into the Armenian Highlands. This was also the first death blow to Byzantium. Thereafter, city after city in Asia Minor would fall to the Turkic invasions.

When you get a chance get your hands on Armenian sources regarding this topic. In the 11th century Byzantium would stop at nothings to make sure that the Armenian Highlands were depopulated of its native inhabitants. They attempted several military incursions but were defeated by Armenian forces. Realizing they could not defeat us militarily, they began resorting to blackmail, and political pressure. They pressured and blackmailed Armenian nobility to accept land offers far away from the Armenian Highlands. They murdered Armenian leaders, they bribed Armenian leaders. They also encouraged Seljuk incursions into Armenia. Just read the history.

I do , i readed Louis Bréhier's work to be more precised.

Good. I have already noticed that you have an open mind regarding such matters.

I will say that it is a good thing for modern Greece because religion prevent us to be westernized even if it is happing thanks to the religion it is happining slowly.

Well, this is a two sided coin. The way I see it, the Greek Orthodox Church's aggressive, dogmatic and tyrannical attitude helped facilitate the destruction of the Byzantine Empire. However, thereafter, the Geek Church helped preserve Greek identity. Personally, had the Empire not collapsed the way it did, there would not have been a need to "preserve Greek identity" in a newly formed "Turkish" land.

Well then we have here another good exemple of good Greek-Armenian relations. When he defeated Phocas to take his crown back the people of Constantipolilis were with him and celebrated him.

Without doubt. I get very-very angry every time I think about what could have been had Armenians and Greeks cooperated in the middle ages. No Greek Genocide, no Armenian Genocide, no Ottoman Empire, no Turkey... Asia Minor would still be the center of civilization today, instead of the Turkic/Islamic cesspool that it is today.

About Basil II i think he was the best one because he had a falling Empire in his hands and defeated in my eyes the Empire's strongest ennemie , the Bulgarians.

Withouts doubt, Basil II is perhaps one of the greatest leaders in world history, not just Byzantium. But I have a soft spot for Heraclius' Christian zeal, political foresight and military prowess.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

The role of Islam in modern Turkish ruling elite is absolutely minimal. In the past Islam was allowed to play a role in their ambitions but it has always acted basically as a shop front to the real Turkish religion, which for a lack of a strong intellectual fundament was not as strongly cemented in their psyche as it is now. But at the end of the 19th century their religion finally found its “bible” and from then on the majority of the Turkish ruling elite and their entire military command together with some of the most influential people in Turkey and abroad in their Diasporas are shaped and driven only by one thing, a powerful and genuinely Turkish ideology known as Ülkücü (Idealist), which is based on writings of 19th century Turkish nationalist Ziya Gokalp who combined the elements of the ancient Turkish religion, which Turks brought with them from Altay and have always practiced, with ultra nationalist ideas. Gokalp’s works were followed by a number of other Turkish nationalist intellectuals/writers who advanced his ideas even further and created what we have today: A nationalist Turkey with ultra nationalist ruling elite.

So, number one: let’s stop associating so much the religion of Islam with the Turks, and most importantly, number two: let’s recognize our enemy for what he really is. This enemy can only be defeated by at least an equally strong nationalist ideology, something that for example their current, active adversaries (the Kurds) simply don’t have. But we do! Our Tseghakronutiun serves as an extremely sound and solid fundament upon which we can build further and then stand on it and aim right at heart of our enemy to destroy him today in order not to be destroyed by them and their lackeys tomorrow.

Throw in the donmeh sect of judaism and international bankers, and our picture of why things transpired the way they did becomes even more clear.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Bravo Amrotz, Islam has never been a serious problem to us Armenians. During the First World War, it was Islamic states that readily accepted Armenian survivors into their nations. And look at the kind of relationship we enjoy with an Islamic 'fundamentalist' state like Iran. Our primary problem has had to do with Turkish nationalism, and by extension pan-Turkism. Sadly, many of our sheeple tie Islam to the Turkish equation, without realizing that the Armenian Genocide was orchestrated by 'secular' Turks. many of whom were of Jewish ancestry.

The role of Islam in modern Turkish ruling elite is absolutely minimal. In the past Islam was allowed to play a role in their ambitions but it has always acted basically as a shop front to the real Turkish religion, which for a lack of a strong intellectual fundament was not as strongly cemented in their psyche as it is now. But at the end of the 19th century their religion finally found its “bible” and from then on the majority of the Turkish ruling elite and their entire military command together with some of the most influential people in Turkey and abroad in their Diasporas are shaped and driven only by one thing, a powerful and genuinely Turkish ideology known as Ülkücü (Idealist), which is based on writings of 19th century Turkish nationalist Ziya Gokalp who combined the elements of the ancient Turkish religion, which Turks brought with them from Altay and have always practiced, with ultra nationalist ideas. Gokalp’s works were followed by a number of other Turkish nationalist intellectuals/writers who advanced his ideas even further and created what we have today: A nationalist Turkey with ultra nationalist ruling elite. So, number one: let’s stop associating so much the religion of Islam with the Turks, and most importantly, number two: let’s recognize our enemy for what he really is. This enemy can only be defeated by at least an equally strong nationalist ideology, something that for example their current, active adversaries (the Kurds) simply don’t have. But we do! Our Tseghakronutiun serves as an extremely sound and solid fundament upon which we can build further and then stand on it and aim right at heart of our enemy to destroy him today in order not to be destroyed by them and their lackeys tomorrow.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

good posts guys.