Armenia and Byzantium

[Kanki]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

The role of Islam in modern Turkish ruling elite is absolutely minimal. In the past Islam was allowed to play a role in their ambitions but it has always acted basically as a shop front to the real Turkish religion, which for a lack of a strong intellectual fundament was not as strongly cemented in their psyche as it is now. But at the end of the 19th century their religion finally found its “bible” and from then on the majority of the Turkish ruling elite and their entire military command together with some of the most influential people in Turkey and abroad in their Diasporas are shaped and driven only by one thing, a powerful and genuinely Turkish ideology known as Ülkücü (Idealist), which is based on writings of 19th century Turkish nationalist Ziya Gokalp who combined the elements of the ancient Turkish religion, which Turks brought with them from Altay and have always practiced, with ultra nationalist ideas. Gokalp’s works were followed by a number of other Turkish nationalist intellectuals/writers who advanced his ideas even further and created what we have today: A nationalist Turkey with ultra nationalist ruling elite.

So, number one: let’s stop associating so much the religion of Islam with the Turks, and most importantly, number two: let’s recognize our enemy for what he really is. This enemy can only be defeated by at least an equally strong nationalist ideology, something that for example their current, active adversaries (the Kurds) simply don’t have. But we do! Our Tseghakronutiun serves as an extremely sound and solid fundament upon which we can build further and then stand on it and aim right at heart of our enemy to destroy him today in order not to be destroyed by them and their lackeys tomorrow.

You are objective, I accept your ideas as a Turk.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

The role of Islam in modern Turkish ruling elite is absolutely minimal. In the past Islam was allowed to play a role in their ambitions but it has always acted basically as a shop front to the real Turkish religion, which for a lack of a strong intellectual fundament was not as strongly cemented in their psyche as it is now. But at the end of the 19th century their religion finally found its “bible” and from then on the majority of the Turkish ruling elite and their entire military command together with some of the most influential people in Turkey and abroad in their Diasporas are shaped and driven only by one thing, a powerful and genuinely Turkish ideology known as Ülkücü (Idealist), which is based on writings of 19th century Turkish nationalist Ziya Gokalp who combined the elements of the ancient Turkish religion, which Turks brought with them from Altay and have always practiced, with ultra nationalist ideas. Gokalp’s works were followed by a number of other Turkish nationalist intellectuals/writers who advanced his ideas even further and created what we have today: A nationalist Turkey with ultra nationalist ruling elite.

So, number one: let’s stop associating so much the religion of Islam with the Turks, and most importantly, number two: let’s recognize our enemy for what he really is. This enemy can only be defeated by at least an equally strong nationalist ideology, something that for example their current, active adversaries (the Kurds) simply don’t have. But we do! Our Tseghakronutiun serves as an extremely sound and solid fundament upon which we can build further and then stand on it and aim right at heart of our enemy to destroy him today in order not to be destroyed by them and their lackeys tomorrow.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

It is obvious that Turks bear a very large pre-Turkic Anatolian component. The resemblance to Greeks and Armenians is remarkable, although some Turkic elements are apparent.

Modern Turks are more-or-less assimilated Anatolians. They look for the most part native to Anatolia, however, with a distinct Asiatic and Semitic flavoring.

Does anyone care to comment on what in Turkish culture makes the Turks in history so ruthless? I don't believe it's genetics at all, on principle, and also on the basis that many other Turkic peoples (Kazakhs, Tatars, Uzbeks, etc.) have not demonstrated this degree of ferocity.

In my opinion, it has to do with their inherited Asiatic "Turk" identity; their Islamic culture which compliments their already barbaric nature; and the simple fact that Anatolian peoples, like Caucasians, can be very-very brutal.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

The pre turkic component that you speak is a direct result of over 600 years of rape and assimilation by the orcs, so it should be no suprise that they look caucasian now rather than mongolian.

I would say genetics and the nomadic lifestyle are two important reasons why they are such animals. And while turks happen to the vilest of the mongols, lets not forget what their uzbek cousins did under tamerlane, the mongols led by Genghis, etc. Throughout history nomads have been barbarians that have usully contributed to the decline or fall of various empires. But when I compare the ruthlessness of the Germanic tribes with that of the turkic ones, it is eveident to me, that genetics does have its part to play in it, how great is open to interpretation.

I think islam is only a minor reason for their barbarity, now adays it is often used by zionists or pro zionists to gain "western" support on their side, so I do not encourage islamophobia. And like you said, if islam were really a major reason why, then how does one explain the relative temperence shown by the arabs and persians among others?

I just want to chemy in here and make it a point that the genetic influence was very much one way versus pre-islam and pre-christianity in the region, I would say, during Pagan times, the regions cultural exchange is questionable in that, there is no way to prove how the people behaved, the upper class most likely mixed with Partheian kings and queens, however, the lower class, hard to predict.

However, after 200 AD or so, the religious differences truly seperate the Armenian people from the rest of the populations in the region. This probably was the same during the Ottoman Empire, if you notice, Turks, they don't look exactly alike, there exists a varying degree of difference, some look Armenian, Greek, Serb, Asian, or Arab, but, conversely, Armenians look Armenian. Obviously, I would say Armenians may have some admixture with Christians in the region, Crusaders, Assyrians, Greeks, and etc ... however, very rarely would a Christian family mix with a Muslim family. And I don't mean this with a degree of "eliteism", rather, just being objective. For Turks, it was always customary to take brides into the home, not rape them and leave them, furthermore, most of the time, especially in the Armenian community, I know from stories from the genocide that it was very common for a Armenian women to commit suicide if she was raped. Anyways, just to clarify that this idea of "turk" admixture with "Armenians" is a myth, well, it is true to a certain extent, but one way only, Armenian genes to Turks, not vice versa.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

It is obvious that Turks bear a very large pre-Turkic Anatolian component. The resemblance to Greeks and Armenians is remarkable, although some Turkic elements are apparent.

Does anyone care to comment on what in Turkish culture makes the Turks in history so ruthless? I don't believe it's genetics at all, on principle, and also on the basis that many other Turkic peoples (Kazakhs, Tatars, Uzbeks, etc.) have not demonstrated this degree of ferocity.

Is it Islam? If so, how can we explain why Persians and Arabs never gave rise to such a culture, and in the late 19th and early 20th century in particular, never resorted to the tactics of the Ottomans, or at least not to such a degree.

The pre turkic component that you speak is a direct result of over 600 years of rape and assimilation by the orcs, so it should be no suprise that they look caucasian now rather than mongolian.

I would say genetics and the nomadic lifestyle are two important reasons why they are such animals. And while turks happen to be the vilest of the mongols, lets not forget what their uzbek cousins did under tamerlane, the mongols led by Genghis, etc. Throughout history nomads have been barbarians that have usully contributed to the decline or fall of various empires/civilizations. But when I compare the ruthlessness of the Germanic tribes with that of the turkic ones, it is eveident to me, that genetics does have its part to play, how great is open to interpretation.

I think islam is only a minor reason for their barbarity, now adays it is often used by zionists or pro zionists to gain "western" support on their side, so I do not encourage islamophobia. And like you said, if islam were really a major reason why, then how does one explain the relative temperence shown by the arabs and persians among others?

[Behelit]

Shad shenorhagal em !

Armenian stated:

"I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks"

...

OK thank you for the clarification aper

It is really sad that Turks are tolerated here.For what i have seen most of them are provocateurs.

[Merv]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

It is obvious that Turks bear a very large pre-Turkic Anatolian component. The resemblance to Greeks and Armenians is remarkable, although some Turkic elements are apparent.

Does anyone care to comment on what in Turkish culture makes the Turks in history so ruthless? I don't believe it's genetics at all, on principle, and also on the basis that many other Turkic peoples (Kazakhs, Tatars, Uzbeks, etc.) have not demonstrated this degree of ferocity.

Is it Islam? If so, how can we explain why Persians and Arabs never gave rise to such a culture, and in the late 19th and early 20th century in particular, never resorted to the tactics of the Ottomans, or at least not to such a degree.

[Selpak]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

xxxx off you dirty orcish turk!

It was Uruk-hai. Any way. Why not?

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

xxxx off you dirty orcish turk!

[skhara]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Negotiate with Tamerlane and his human head pyramids? There is nothing to negotiate.