Armenia and Byzantium

[Selpak]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

In 571 the Byzentium came in help to Armenia against the Persians who invaded Armenia.

Armenians helped to both Byzantium and Persians at the same time. Thus, Tacitus said weird to Armenians. Armenians had feudal life style like ashirets live in Eastern Turkey. They have common language and religion and it was all. They were not united politically.

You can not negotiate with Turks or compromise with them

Please tell me where/when you try to really negotiate with a Turk or compromise with him. Editing some pictures and saying affirm them... a good, true argument shut all moths up. A greek shows a hanged greek provocateur as a Armenian Genocide evidence...

all this talk is directed towards the Turkish posters that try to make it seem like Armenians and Turks have some reason or middle-ground to work together

Who are those Turkish posters??

[Virgil]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

What does that mean?

Armenian stated:

"I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks"

Assuming hypothetically, that you had to pick between being political rivals with Greeks or political allies with Turks, knowing the historical anticedents of the region, I would rather be political rivals with Greeks versus being political allies with Turks. The Greeks will "eat your meat", like they will be rivals, but will "leave your bones", they have some level of bottomline morals and civility. You can not negotiate with Turks or compromise with them, it is their way or the highway, just look at the US-UK-Israel-Turkish alliance, it can not even be consdered a true "alliance", all parties blackmail each for political gains, who would want to be blackmailed into submission? What is then the "alliance" in that? By the way, the proverb is not about greeks, it actually is just "'blank' will eat your meat, but leave your bones", translates better in Armenian.

Behelit, all this talk is directed towards the Turkish posters that try to make it seem like Armenians and Turks have some reason or middle-ground to work together, when they don't, obviously, considering the past events, it falls on them to prove to the Armenian people and the various other minorities like the Greeks, Serbs, and etc ... that they have truly gone beyond their old Ottoman Empire tactics and vision.

[Behelit]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Very true! Old Armenian proverb, the Greeks may "eat your meat, but not throw away your bones".

What does that mean?

[Behelit]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Behelit, pay attention to what I wrote.

I just pointed this out because i think that it looked very negative.But that's maybe because i'm Greek
Let's be clear i'm not here to make troubles or so...

Armenians did part of the Byzentium Empire and give it his Greatest Glory.Armenians are the reason why the Empire lived hat long.
Also it is good to say that the politic views of The City are not always the same then his habitants.

No, not correct. The region in question, as well as the royal capitol city of Ani were given to the Byzantines because of Byzantium's decades long agenda to acquire those lands by force and/or blackmail.

I never said they succeded in protecting it.
Also Hovhannès Sembat gave Ani to Byzantium after his dead and it was not respected.Gagik II was put on the trone.
What blackmail are yoy talking about ? Could you clarify this point , thank you.

However, I suggest you read non-Greek sources.

I do , i readed Louis Bréhier's work to be more precised.

You are right. Theological and administrative disputes played a big role. Even today the Greek Church considers the Armenian Church heretical.

I will say that it is a good thing for modern Greece because religion prevent us to be westernized even if it is happing thanks to the religion it is happining slowly.

He certainly was. However, my favorite was Heraclius, also said to be of Armenian decent.

Well then we have here another good exemple of good Greek-Armenian relations.
When he defeated Phocas to take his crown back the people of Constantipolilis were with him and celebrated him.

About Basil II i think he was the best one because he had a falling Empire in his hands and defeated in my eyes the Empire's strongest ennemie , the Bulgarians.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

And take your "Ottoman Empire was the one of the best stabile time period of Armenians" and shove it up your ass.

I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks.

Very true! Old Armenian proverb, the Greeks may "eat your meat, but not throw away your bones".

[Selpak]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks

why?

[Kanki]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks.

An interesting approach

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

According to Stepanos Asoghik Armenians helped Turks against Byzantium when Turks try to get into Anatolia. Long part of Ottoman Empire was the one of the best stabile time period of Armenians.

Sadly, you are right to a certain extent. Both Armenians and Greeks helped Seljuks fight Byzantine authority in Anatolia. Thereafter, it was easy for Asiatic Turks to assimilate the native population in Anatolia, which mostly constituted of Greeks. That is why today Turks are for a large part genetically similar to Greeks. However, you Turks are living proof of what happens when brotherly nations do not cooperate. I raise this historic issue regarding Byzantium so that we Armenians and Greeks can learn from our past mistakes. So realize that you Turks were more-or-less 'allowed' into Anatolia by the disgruntled natives. Had Greeks and Armenians presented unified front, there would be no Turkey and Azerbaijan today. Yes, Byzantine Armenian relations were bad at certain points in history. At other points, however, they were very good. And when they were good, Anatolia was an impregnable Christian fortress. And take your "Ottoman Empire was the one of the best stabile time period of Armenians" and shove it up your ass.

I rather have an enemy like Greeks than a friend like Turks.

[Selpak]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

According to Stepanos Asoghik Armenians helped Turks against Byzantium when Turks try to get into Anatolia. Long part of Ottoman Empire was the one of the best stabile time period of Armenians.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenia and Byzantium

Behelit, pay attention to what I wrote. I said at 'certain' periods. During the 11 century in particular Byzantines were attempting to ethnically cleanse Armenia of Armenians. That genocidal agenda, instigated by the Greek Orthodox clergy for most part because Armenians would not accept Greek Orthodoxy, was the fundamental reason why Armenia was weakened to a point that it could not present a unified force against Seljuk forces that had just appeared in the reigon. When Byzantium and Armenia cooperated the region was an impregnable fortress.

Sorry but this look very negative ... let's not forget :

In 571 the Byzentium came in help to Armenia against the Persians who invaded Armenia.

In 837 Byzentium fight the Arabs in Armenia.

1067 , Kars is "given" to the Byzentine Empire to defend it against the Seldjouks.

No, not correct. The region in question, as well as the royal capitol city of Ani were given to the Byzantines because of Byzantium's decades long agenda to acquire those lands by force and/or blackmail. Byzantine Greek at the time were even encouraging Seljuks to attack Armenia from the east, to quicken the hand over. Armenian nobility could not stand up to the Byzantnes and the Seljuks at the same time, do they "gave" it to the Byzantines. And without Armenian military participation, the Byzantines were not able to protect the lands in question. Read the history. This is a very sad and upsetting time period for Armenians, and eventually Greeks as well. It is also very complex. However, I suggest you read non-Greek sources.

Too bad Byzantium and Armenia had religious disagreements.Religion played a too big part in Costantinopolis to be ruled correctly.

You are right. Theological and administrative disputes played a big role. Even today the Greek Church considers the Armenian Church heretical.

Βουλγαροκτόνος was really the best Byzantine ruler.

He certainly was. However, my favorite was Heraclius, also said to be of Armenian decent.