The Ottomans

[Lucin]

Re: The Ottomans

Dear Lucin,

The Christian god has a dual character. As long as it is influenced by the Aryan/Iranian religions: Mithraism, Zoroaster and Mani and the Greek culture, it is a kind god, when it is the Jew god Yahweh, mostly through the writings of Paul who plays an essential role in the creation of Christianity, it is the vicious god of Torah, a bit less cruel nevertheless!

I can't disagree with you. Paul was just an apostle, a human, a Jewish one, of course. I'd rather stick to Christ and take His word. I hope you won't say he was "King of the Jews".

Do read Shojaeddin Shafa's books that are available online, if you haven't. Start with Tavallodi Digar that with a simple style explains all this, providing enough examples to shut up those who still have any respect for those vile Abrahamic religions.

Sure. Thanks. I gotta go to Enghelab these days so I'll definitely buy one. The title (Tavallodi digar) sounds so familiar to me.

In Iran, we have had it up to our necks for the last thirty years and we are sick of it to death, aren't we Lucin?

*sighs* well, it's 24 years for me. I don't know exactly what it was like before 1357. But we still like her, she is beautiful and I have some fond memories in its every corner, don't you?

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

I can't disagree with you. Paul was just an apostle, a human, a Jewish one, of course. I'd rather stick to Christ and take His word. I hope you won't say he was "King of the Jews".

Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history. Anyway, the possibility that a good man called Jesus (or Yahshua) who preached to the people has existed is not extraordinary.

The rites and philosophy of Christianity are the continuation of older pagan religions of the peoples who later became Christians. In this thread Armenian has shared his thoughts on the Aryan/Iranian/non-Jewish character of Christianity where you can see how many mythical personalities predating Jesus have existed on who the character of Christ has been modeled.

Sure. Thanks. I gotta go to Enghelab these days so I'll definitely buy one. The title (Tavallodi digar) sounds so familiar to me.

Achtung! Shojaeddin Shafa's books are forbidden in Iran so be careful not to ask about his books, but you can find some of them on the web. Tavallodi Digar is available as typed PDF, the others are scans which makes their reading off the monitor not so easy.

*sighs* well, it's 24 years for me. I don't know exactly what it was like before 1357. But we still like her, she is beautiful and I have some fond memories in its every corner, don't you?

Well, I am just a little older! I was around before the catastrophe. Despite what they say and despite the fact that I was a mere kid at the time, I assure you that the quality of life back then cannot be compared with the shit we are in today. It was way better in any way you can imagine even compared to western countries. Shah did not like the commies and there was not much political freedom but no one cared about what you could wear, what you could eat, what you could drink, what music you could listen to, what you could watch... The wages were high, the taxes were ridiculously low, the services were almost free...

[Lucin]

Re: The Ottomans

Christ is most probably a mythical character; he has not been recorded in history. Anyway, the possibility that a good man called Jesus (or Yahshua) who preached to the people has existed is not extraordinary.

The rites and philosophy of Christianity are the continuation of older pagan religions of the peoples who later became Christians. In this thread Armenian has shared his thoughts on the Aryan/Iranian/non-Jewish character of Christianity where you can see how many mythical personalities predating Jesus have existed on who the character of Christ has been modeled.

I am aware of it and I'd like to call it 'similarities' but Christ can be defined a bit differently- by nature- than Mithra and Zoroaster. Anyway, I understand you don't believe in such "fictional ridiculousness "...

Achtung! Shojaeddin Shafa's books are forbidden in Iran so be careful not to ask about his books, but you can find some of them on the web. Tavallodi Digar is available as typed PDF, the others are scans which makes their reading off the monitor not so easy.

Ah, I should have known that. You know 'everything' is banned and 'nothing' is banned in practice...
By the way, je ne parle pas allemand, Hellektor.

Well, I am just a little older! I was around before the catastrophe. Despite what they say and despite the fact that I was a mere kid at the time, I assure you that the quality of life back then cannot be compared with the shit we are in today. It was way better in any way you can imagine even compared to western countries. Shah did not like the commies and there was not much political freedom but no one cared about what you could wear, what you could eat, what you could drink, what music you could listen to, what you could watch... The wages were high, the taxes were ridiculously low, the services were almost free...

Khalayegh har che layegh?

I'm not a big fan of Shah either. (He just seemed to be a puppet) But it's true that the country's economic situation was not even comparable to the mess they have created for us today. Just imagine how much reverence others had for us, abroad... However, I don't understand the necessity of an Islamic revolution in Iran. Had it happened in the Pakis' country or Saudi Arabia for instance, I wouldn't have been surprised a bit… See what I mean?

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

I am aware of it and I'd like to call it 'similarities' but Christ can be defined a bit differently- by nature- than Mithra and Zoroaster. Anyway, I understand you don't believe in such "fictional ridiculousness "...

I wasn't talking about Mithra and Zoroaster. There are mythological characters in many cultures whose stories have been adapted by Christians in order not to sever their ties with their “pagan” past.

Gnerally speaking I am not a big fan of wiki especially as far as politics are concerned, I make an exception here:
Jesus Christ in comparative mythology

Check this too or do your own Googling

They all share the characteristics of being produced of a virgin birth, walking on water, performing miracles, being crucified, having been resurrected, etc. I am not against people who believe, I can't stand those who want to force their religious ideas on those won't accept their beliefs blindly; the intolerant, or what?

Ah, I should have known that. You know 'everything' is banned and 'nothing' is banned in practice...
By the way, je ne parle pas allemand, Hellektor.

C'est pas grave! Everybody knows what Achtung means, right

Khalayegh har che layegh?

I'm not a big fan of Shah either. (He just seemed to be a puppet) But it's true that the country's economic situation was not even comparable to the mess they have created for us today. Just imagine how much reverence others had for us, abroad... However, I don't understand the necessity of an Islamic revolution in Iran. Had it happened in the Pakis' country or Saudi Arabia for instance, I wouldn't have been surprised a bit… See what I mean?

I am not anti-Shah, he was definitely not acting as a puppet in the latter years of his rule. I am pro truth. Some people have pictured the Shah as a ruthless demon, what is total baloney and falsification of history.

One instance: there was this project introduced by the Shah, namely “Taghzieh Raigan” where every single day for all the nine school months they would distribute fruit, milk, biscuits or a cake in EVERY school all over Iran for FREE. He obviously wanted to see every Iranian kid fed well and he wanted to shut out the possibility of malnutrition and undernourished children in Iran. Is this bad? I have to hear a communist say ONE good thing about the Shah. They only associate him with SAVAK, but this free distribution of essential nutrition was a “communist” thing or what? I know for a fact that such a program has not been put to practice even in Switzerland.

Men and women were not separated anywhere not at school, not in buses, not in the swimming pool, not on the beach. There was almost no unemployment and everything was so cheap that anyone could buy a home after a few years from the start of their career. Women were allowed to sing, to travel alone, to wear whatever they liked. You had chadoris and women in mini skirts walking in the same street and I truly believe the “revolution” was because of this “excessive” freedom and a sudden surge of a higher middle class.

On one hand, the backward islamists and hezbollahis couldn't stand the modernization (i.e. seeing their women walking in mini skirts) and on the other hand, the expectations of the middle class that constituted a huge bulk of the society were growing unrealistically. I vehemently reject the delirious pretence of those (mainly commies) who claim the people were on to a socialist revolution and it was hijacked by the Islamists helped by the West and BBC. Pure, 48 carat, non-polishable, stinking croc of horse shit. They had their stomachs too full, be bakhteshoon lagad zadand.

Shah's regime did not allow political freedom, yet it was corrigible. We had 100% civil freedom (we have 0% now), employment and economic security. Shah was dying; in fact he died about a year after his leaving the country, so there was no necessity for a revolution. His son would be softer and more open-minded than him just as he was more open-minded and softer than his father...

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

I don't understand the necessity of an Islamic revolution in Iran. Had it happened in the Pakis' country or Saudi Arabia for instance, I wouldn't have been surprised a bit… See what I mean?

I forgot to respond to this. This is a question that I have been asking every single day since the disaster, yet I guess you see the answer in my previous post: it's this thing they have regarding women. It's all about women and covering their heads. This concern with forcing the hejab the way they like it has been a constant throughout all these years, though in the beginning it was a simple act of revenge on Reza Shah by Khomeini.

This psychotic obsession to cover the heads of women -see their “movies” and TV programs where they find a way to hide the woman's head even when she is supposed to be playing the role of a westerner- is unique even in the Islamic world. This is the reason for the “revolution” and it comes from Iranian culture. They had this in the Zoroastrian days and hejab is the literal translation of the Persian word pardeh (from pardeh sara) where they hid their wives.

[Anoush]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Anoush,

Just to avoid any misunderstanding from any readers, what I meant was that I didn't want to speak on behalf of any Armenian who would disagree, because unfortunately, the bulk of the Armenians and all non-Armenians think what's between Turks and Armenians is no different than a given case of two feuding parties like say, the Germans and the Dutch or the French and the English.

This is reflected in the attitudes of the Eurofags who say “why can't the Artsakh people agree with a broad autonomy within “Azerbaijan” like in the case of Ĺland Islands?”, not caring for the facts (among countless others) that:

I. Artsakh has never been part of an independent fake “Azerbaijan”;

II. Artsakh is free and there's no reason why the people who gained their freedom after 70 years of imposed subjugation should give up their independence and voluntarily go under murderous Turkic yoke despite their victory and the Turk's miserable defeat in the war they instigated;

III. Artsakh is no island and its present borders are fraudulently drawn by the “Azeri” garbage to sever this province from the motherland Armenia;

IV. the “Azeris” not only are no human beings, they are (at the moment) the most vicious type of Inhuman Civilization-deficiency Viruses collectively known as Turk, because they are at the beginning of their miserable existence as a “state” and “nation” however absurd these terms may sound in relation to such a worthless, reeking garbage residue as the genocidal, destructive “Azeri” filth.

Dear Hellektor,

I totally agree with each and every statement you made above, here and everywhere. As an Armenian patriotic individual I believe that you are truly an Armenian spokesman and the voice of truth on all the websites that you do visit. You know your history and the characteristics of our enemy very well. I read your posts and it always delights me to read your thoughts and brainstorms. A while back you have mentioned in one post that why Armenia doesn't do something when the azeri army dogs demolished in broad daylight our 1,500 Xachkars in Naxichevan. Then I just read above what you actually meant by it then. Meaning why didn't Armenia capitalize on it and fought for that part of OUR country "Naxichevan" to be our own again; it would have been a great timing for us and it would've made a great sense, but alas Armenia didn't do anything about it. How right you are and it's a sheer shame that we stood still. What did the Europeans or America do? Nothing. But we could have done something about it then by making it our own AGAIN. I thought then that you meant Armenia should have the azeris pay for their vandalisms and getting scorned by world powers. But you meant then a much better solution for us but we didn't capitalize on it.

I remember years ago my father used to read how the azeri dogs would mistreat and mutilize Armenian boys and girls in and around Artsax; then called azerbaijan thanks to another dog called Stalin. How can any Armenian feel safe around those dogy dog esheg azeris? And why did Armenia and Artsax's autonomy after winning the war agreed to sever the province from the motherland Armenia? Frankly I don't know that part of the history and I get upset everytime that I see the Artsaxian map separated from the motherland. Can't we do something about it and make it part of Armenia? We should; otherwise it's stupid.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Hellektor,

I totally agree with each and every statement you made above, here and everywhere. As an Armenian patriotic individual I believe that you are truly an Armenian spokesman and the voice of truth on all the websites that you do visit. You know your history and the characteristics of our enemy very well. I read your posts and it always delights me to read your thoughts and brainstorms. A while back you have mentioned in one post that why Armenia doesn't do something when the azeri army dogs demolished in broad daylight our 1,500 Xachkars in Naxichevan. Then I just read above what you actually meant by it then. Meaning why didn't Armenia capitalize on it and fought for that part of OUR country "Naxichevan" to be our own again; it would have been a great timing for us and it would've made a great sense, but alas Armenia didn't do anything about it. How right you are and it's a sheer shame that we stood still. What did the Europeans or America do? Nothing. But we could have done something about it then by making it our own AGAIN. I thought then that you meant Armenia should have the azeris pay for their vandalisms and getting scorned by world powers. But you meant then a much better solution for us but we didn't capitalize on it.

I remember years ago my father used to read how the azeri dogs would mistreat and mutilize Armenian boys and girls in and around Artsax; then called azerbaijan thanks to another dog called Stalin. How can any Armenian feel safe around those dogy dog esheg azeris? And why did Armenia and Artsax's autonomy after winning the war agreed to sever the province from the motherland Armenia? Frankly I don't know that part of the history and I get upset everytime that I see the Artsaxian map separated from the motherland. Can't we do something about it and make it part of Armenia? We should; otherwise it's stupid.

Anoush jan, I too agree that the goverment should have done something about the cultural genocide in Naxichevan.

About Artsakh, Armenian soldliers control a corridor that connects Armenia and Artsakh. Don't forgot beside of Artsakh we control 10% of fake Azerbajan.

I congradulate you for your astonishment about nahichevan is very logical but equally there is a truth of incapacity about the armenian authorities who are running armenia the past 15 years or more.As far as if we will not be able to produce a strong leader of solid capacity of thinking that indipendence is not a matter that one cant buy in USA nor Russian market for our nation will be the very important feature to start with.This political figure should promote an autstanding ability to manupulate and play with the dominant two rival powers such as Russia and USA to reach our important national goals .Our prime target is for the time beeing will be important to put on the shelf the genocide matter and make a pact temporarly with turkey .Than without loosing time we conqure the Javah to have our stratejical bleack sea port and haveing reach an important mutual understanding with turkey we occupay the nahichevan immidiately and get kick out all the azzery cattels out our land.Turkey will not oppose this movment since the famous armenian question will be out of agenda for some time.Mean while our best bet will be collobration with China,which is the new reality for of ald fashon Russia or crippled USA.All we need a leader who will not be inspired by Russia or USA that is all,the rest will come easy.

[Lucin]

Re: The Ottomans

I wasn't talking about Mithra and Zoroaster. There are mythological characters in many cultures whose stories have been adapted by Christians in order not to sever their ties with their “pagan” past.

Gnerally speaking I am not a big fan of wiki especially as far as politics are concerned, I make an exception here:
Jesus Christ in comparative mythology

Check this too or do your own Googling

"Good". So Mr. James Holding wants to make a myth out of Christ and a Jewish myth of course! (created by Jews) Pure nonsense.

I know that He's been compared to many mythical figures but again as I said Christ has a different nature; He is a true "myth" for me. Look what C.S. Lewis (the Christian mythologist) had to say on all this: "The story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened."

C'est pas grave! Everybody knows what Achtung means, right

My God... how many languages do you know?

I am not anti-Shah, he was definitely not acting as a puppet in the latter years of his rule. I am pro truth. Some people have pictured the Shah as a ruthless demon, what is total baloney and falsification of history.

One instance: there was this project introduced by the Shah, namely “Taghzieh Raigan” where every single day for all the nine school months they would distribute fruit, milk, biscuits or a cake in EVERY school all over Iran for FREE. He obviously wanted to see every Iranian kid fed well and he wanted to shut out the possibility of malnutrition and undernourished children in Iran. Is this bad? I have to hear a communist say ONE good thing about the Shah. They only associate him with SAVAK, but this free distribution of essential nutrition was a “communist” thing or what? I know for a fact that such a program has not been put to practice even in Switzerland.

I hadn't heard of this project of him but yea he indeed had many other huge plans for Iran in his head, one of them being the Olympic Games…

Men and women were not separated anywhere not at school, not in buses, not in the swimming pool, not on the beach. There was almost no unemployment and everything was so cheap that anyone could buy a home after a few years from the start of their career. Women were allowed to sing, to travel alone, to wear whatever they liked. You had chadoris and women in mini skirts walking in the same street and I truly believe the “revolution” was because of this “excessive” freedom and a sudden surge of a higher middle class.

Perhaps… and now we have the other 'extreme'. I think usually it's following such 'extremities' that we experience a sudden downfall right after, a 'revolution' in this case…


Today, it's far better than those early days and it was getting better & better day by day until Inghadinejad tried to derail the course of events. And I do not criticize him much for this, that I do for his so-called economic "plans" that proved to be disastrous for the country…

Okay, I think we are crossing the red line. Zaban-e sorkh dahad sar-e sabz bar bad?

I vehemently reject the delirious pretence of those (mainly commies) who claim the people were on to a socialist revolution and it was hijacked by the Islamists helped by the West and BBC. Pure, 48 carat, non-polishable, stinking croc of horse shit.

LOL, I absolutely agree with you but you know how popular this "theory" amongst our people is. How the hell do they come up with such nonesense? It indeed makes me laugh and I'd call these people the real conspiracy theorists…

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Hellektor,

I totally agree with each and every statement you made above, here and everywhere. As an Armenian patriotic individual I believe that you are truly an Armenian spokesman and the voice of truth on all the websites that you do visit. You know your history and the characteristics of our enemy very well. I read your posts and it always delights me to read your thoughts and brainstorms.

Dear Anoush,

I am flattered and a bit embarrassed. Since like most of us normal mortals, I do not have access to other media, I am doing what is in my possibilities and fortunately the internet has given us the opportunity to share our thoughts.

A while back you have mentioned in one post that why Armenia doesn't do something when the azeri army dogs demolished in broad daylight our 1,500 Xachkars in Naxichevan. Then I just read above what you actually meant by it then. Meaning why didn't Armenia capitalize on it and fought for that part of OUR country "Naxichevan" to be our own again; it would have been a great timing for us and it would've made a great sense, but alas Armenia didn't do anything about it. How right you are and it's a sheer shame that we stood still. What did the Europeans or America do? Nothing. But we could have done something about it then by making it our own AGAIN. I thought then that you meant Armenia should have the azeris pay for their vandalisms and getting scorned by world powers. But you meant then a much better solution for us but we didn't capitalize on it.

I have repeatedly expressed my disgust and amazement at our indifference and that of the so-called civilized world concerning the destruction of Armenian heritage. As far as the khachkars are concerned I have dedicated a heading in And the Fraud...

Yes, we are so clumsy and indifferent regarding our treasures. The least the Armenian government could have done was to dispatch a helicopter gunship to kill those soldiers who were destroying the khachkars and believe me, the oh so biased “international” community would never have dared condemn it or even admonish the RoA for that. What? The “Azeri” garbage was going to howl, “we were destroying their monuments to erase any evidence of Armenian presence and those bloodthirsty Armenians prevented the peaceful, civilized destruction of the centuries old cultural site” ???

Not even that, they could have protested and stopped the “negotiations” on ceding territory to the sore “Azeri” losers until proper investigation was carried out and the genocidal vermin punished for the vandalism. No one had the right to condemn that. But what did our statesmen do? Nothing, not a damn thing…

I am almost convinced the 70 years of the imposed Abrahamic religion of Marxism have turned most of the citizens of the Republic of Armenia into Soviet men/women. They kind of don't care a hang about whatever is outside the “girl's profile” as if the genocidal drawing of Soviet Armenian borders were the true and unchangeable limits of Armenia.

Not 1500, but more than 2700 khachkars and a great number of horizontal and ram shaped tombstones still survived until the final destruction. For details on numbers you can search the relevant sites and also look here and here.

I remember years ago my father used to read how the azeri dogs would mistreat and mutilize Armenian boys and girls in and around Artsax; then called azerbaijan thanks to another dog called Stalin. How can any Armenian feel safe around those dogy dog esheg azeris? And why did Armenia and Artsax's autonomy after winning the war agreed to sever the province from the motherland Armenia? Frankly I don't know that part of the history and I get upset everytime that I see the Artsaxian map separated from the motherland. Can't we do something about it and make it part of Armenia? We should; otherwise it's stupid.

The Artsakh war and genocide were results of the sonofabitchery of the “international” community by not recognizing the referendum for independence from the USSR, according to all applicable international and Soviet law, in Artsakh while recognizing that in fake “Azerbaijan” which resulted in the coming into being of two sovereign states on the territory fake “Azerbaijan” wrongly claims as “Azeri”. The reason Armenians had resorted to creating an independent NKR rather than reunification was the sonofabitchery of the Bolshevik tyranny and the sonofabitch Gorbachev in illegally preventing the just demand of the Armenians to mend the Lenin/Kemal/Stalin sonofabitchery of forceful usurpation of Artsakh and its offering to a mere 3 year old fake “Azerbaijan” in 1921.

Here also the Soviet mentality prevails and as if the “baby” separated from the “girl's profile” were the natural border limit of Artsakh. I have also dealt with all this and treacherous drawing of NKAO borders (hence, the artificial separation of Artsakh from Armenia by the genocidal “Azeri” parasites) in more detail in And the Fraud...

P.S. Please don't call those Inhuman Culture-deficiency Viruses dogs. Poor dogs! I sometimes call them wolves or hyenas but those poor animals are only behaving according to their instincts and do not pretend they are human.

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Don't forgot beside of Artsakh we control 10% of fake Azerbajan.

Dear Karo,

It is the artificially fabricated bogus state of fake “Azerbaijan” which was fraudulently counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 that's occupying 20% Armenian land and not vice versa. The true limits of Artsakh province were almost twice the size of all the liberated territories including NKR. I have dealt with this in detail in my thingy and especially this myth of control of “Azeri” land is nothing but Turk baloney. Let them show a single internationally valid document that shows Artsakh (or Nakhijevan for that matter) as part of fake “Azerbaijan”.

Even according to international law, their claims have absolutely no basis. It's just the treachery and double standards of the “international” community that have given them a case against us. The “negotiations” aim at nothing else than usurpation of legally Armenian territory for the sore loser side with the help of their all time Judeo-Saxon friends.