Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Yes it is a fact. The government of the Republic of Armenia has said on numerous occasions since independence that it stands by all treaties signed during the Soviet period, and has specifically mentioned the Treaty of Kars as a treaty it stands by.

I'm not quite sure who is believing whose lies here. Has Turkey actually started to believe its own propaganda (the propaganda that it closed the border because Armenia had territorial claims on Turkey)? Or has Armenia started to believe the Turkish propaganda (believing that it has got ongoing territorial claims when actually it has made none)? Or are they both engaged in a scam, promising to do things that don't actually need to be done, inventing a problem just so that they can say they have solved it, all to disguise the fact that they are leaving the big problems unsolved and the big decisions undecided?

(and it marginalises the ARF nutters).

The Treaty of Kars is NOT a legal document. The Sevres Treaty however is.

How would you like it if some of us calls your Zionists nutters?

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Dashnaks Insist On Territorial Claims To Turkey

Armenia does not recognize Turkey’s territorial integrity and may in the future lay claim to lands that were populated by Armenians before the 1915 genocide, a senior member of the governing Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) claimed on Friday.

“The current government of which we are a part and the president whom we have supported and will support will not abandon territorial claims,” Giro Manoyan, a spokesman for the nationalist party’s ruling Bureau, said. “Armenia’s official position is that the issue is not on our foreign policy agenda. That means it can be on the agenda tomorrow.”

Recognition of Turkey’s current borders has been one of Ankara’s preconditions for normalizing relations with Armenia.[B] Official Yerevan says it recognizes the existing Turkish-Armenian border which was set by the Treaty of Kars signed in 1921 following the country’s takeover by Bolshevik Russia. The government of the then Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic was among the treaty’s signatories

“Armenia is the successor state of the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,” the Armenian Foreign Ministry explains on its website. “All of the agreements which the ASSR signed continue to be in force unless new agreements have been signed to replace them.”At the same time the Armenian government has repeatedly dismissed Turkish demands to officially declare that it will never claim any lands in what is now eastern Turkey.

“No Armenian government can do that because I believe the Armenia people would not allow that government to remain in power,” Manoyan said during a roundtable discussion in Yerevan.

“The fact that there are no territorial claims today, does not mean we can’t lay such claims tomorrow,” he told RFE/RL separately.

The possibility of such claims has never been publicly acknowledged by President Robert Kocharian, Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisian and two other parties represented in Armenia’s government. In a famous 2001 interview with CNN-Turk television, Kocharian sought to assure Ankara that its recognition of the 1915-1918 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide would not prompt territorial demands from Yerevan.

“Genocide recognition by Turkey will not lead to legal consequences for territorial claims,” Kocharian said at the time. “The problem is that those events have taken place in Turkey, and the Republic of Armenia did not exist at that time, and today's Republic of Armenia is not the heir to those lands,” he added.

David Phillips, a U.S. scholar who chaired the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission, wrote in a 2005 book that Kocharian’s interview “helped mollify [Turkish] concerns about Armenia’s intentions.”

But according to Manoyan, the Armenian leader simply stated that “there is no such issue on the agenda of Armenian foreign policy today.” “The president also said genocide recognition would not automatically result in territorial claims,” he said, denying any disagreements on the issue between Kocharian and Dashnaktsutyun.

Manoyan revealed last summer that the party, which also has chapters in major Armenian communities abroad, plans a major shift in its long-running campaign for international recognition of the Armenian genocide. He said Dashnaktsutyun will strive to force Turkey to pay reparations.

Kocharian, however, had told CNN-Turk that for him genocide recognition is “more of a moral issue.”


http://www.armenialiberty.org/conten...e/1580232.html

Don't worry Palavra, Kocharian will most probably go along with Dashnaktsoutyun when the time comes. But let me remind you again that the Legal Document of Sevres Treaty is in complete effect until today! Do not worry, it will materialize one of these days!!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I think a fact. Otherwise, ROA will enter war with azeris too but She did not open a war against Azeris because she had no legal root.(wasnt azeris take ROA at soviet times?) It is also reason for still not recognising karabag as an independent state..

Yes it is a fact. The government of the Republic of Armenia has said on numerous occasions since independence that it stands by all treaties signed during the Soviet period, and has specifically mentioned the Treaty of Kars as a treaty it stands by.

I'm not quite sure who is believing whose lies here. Has Turkey actually started to believe its own propaganda (the propaganda that it closed the border because Armenia had territorial claims on Turkey)? Or has Armenia started to believe the Turkish propaganda (believing that it has got ongoing territorial claims when actually it has made none)? Or are they both engaged in a scam, promising to do things that don't actually need to be done, inventing a problem just so that they can say they have solved it, all to disguise the fact that they are leaving the big problems unsolved and the big decisions undecided?

More likely, Turkey needs to invent a reason for opening the border, and the reason will be "Armenia has now given up its territorial claims". Whatever - if Armenia gets something by giving up nothing, it's good for Armenia (and it marginalises the ARF nutters). And if Turkey really thinks it has got something new, when actually it had it all the time, then the joke is on Turkey.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thank YOU !

Vochinch.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

You are welcomed Saco jan. Of course I rely on your good word to pass my condolences and my good wishes to your good friend Mr. Manuk. Thanks.

Thank YOU !

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thank you Anoush jan . Life goes on I guess but the people we love will always be in our hearts. They will never be forgotten. In the same way, our PEOPLE will never be forgotten. We were all one big family and still ARE. That is what many don't understand. I will definitely present your condolences to Mr. Manuk. Thank you. Actually, he'll be coming over to our place this weekend so your message will get through !



Uremen tentsel togh lini. Vonts sirtut asuma tentsel ara. Yes inch anum kam asumem surtovem anum u asum yev kuzenam bolornel tents anen.



Anoush jan, I created Mr. Manuk's email account so there's no point writing there ! He doesn't know English very well and doesn't check his mails. He isn't too much into computers. I'm teaching him from time to time but the fact is, even if he knew how to do everything with a computer, he doesn't have much time. He's a very busy man. I check his mails from time to time just to see if someone has wanted to contact him.

My word is a man's word Anoush jan, I will definitely say all you said personally myself to him. Doubt anything in this world but that!



Aveli lav chei karogh asel bayts aid anelu aveli lav dzev ka kan zangaharel kam droshneru bartratsrats goral. Aid amenu lava bayts voch hayastanum. Aid dzevu chi ashkhati stegh.

You are welcomed Saco jan. Of course I rely on your good word to pass my condolences and my good wishes to your good friend Mr. Manuk. Thanks.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

so by this flawed logic, republic of turkey is responsible for all acts committed by ottoman empire.

Tseke Hrai jan; yes iren hed pavagan zeroutsetsi yev himag al garevor chem hamarer. Ink ir esadse bidi ese yes al im esadsis vera bidi genam. Barab vijapanutyoun bidi enenk, chem ouzer griv enel.

Garevore ayn e Hrai jan vor mer joghovourte yev mer sireli yeridasart serounte lav kidna iren azkayin iravounknere bashdbanel yev nayev lav Hay ellal - ayt aveli garevor e ints gam mez hamar.

[hrai]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

That is not an argument but an excuse for not answering. Anyway, let me use Declaration of Independence of Armenia...



So every agreement made by Armenian SSR bind Republic of Armenia. It is same entity. Just name changed.

http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/arm/index.html

so by this flawed logic, republic of turkey is responsible for all acts committed by ottoman empire.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I am very sorry for the passing away of your grandmother and your relative's loss Saco jan. Asdvads hokinin lousavor bahe. Tsavali e nayev Baron Manuki shat yeridasart yeghpoortii mahvan negadmamp. Khentrem tsavagtsoutyunners ese im goghmanes nayev iren.

Thank you Anoush jan . Life goes on I guess but the people we love will always be in our hearts. They will never be forgotten. In the same way, our PEOPLE will never be forgotten. We were all one big family and still ARE. That is what many don't understand. I will definitely present your condolences to Mr. Manuk. Thank you. Actually, he'll be coming over to our place this weekend so your message will get through !

Ayo gouzem okdagar ellal Baron Manukin.

Uremen tentsel togh lini. Vonts sirtut asuma tentsel ara. Yes inch anum kam asumem surtovem anum u asum yev kuzenam bolornel tents anen.

Saco jan, you can also give me Baron Manuk's e-mail address so that I can say my condolences to him personally for his loss of his brother's son and also give him for the time being my support to his great works in the past and his wonderful endeavors of the future. Shenorhagalutyoun.

Anoush jan, I created Mr. Manuk's email account so there's no point writing there ! He doesn't know English very well and doesn't check his mails. He isn't too much into computers. I'm teaching him from time to time but the fact is, even if he knew how to do everything with a computer, he doesn't have much time. He's a very busy man. I check his mails from time to time just to see if someone has wanted to contact him.

My word is a man's word Anoush jan, I will definitely say all you said personally myself to him. Doubt anything in this world but that!

Togh ouzadsnun chap khosin. Menk mer tserke ounink Sevres-i orenskidagan Tashnakire yev minchev ores adiga izoru e. Menk bedk e ar-ayjem polor ashxarhin aganche letsenenk inchbes nayev mer Hay joghovurte yev Hay yeridasartoutyune zankaharelov polor ashkharhin Sevres-i Tashnakri garevorutyan yev mer iravunknerun.

Aveli lav chei karogh asel bayts aid anelu aveli lav dzev ka kan zangaharel kam droshneru bartratsrats goral. Aid amenu lava bayts voch hayastanum. Aid dzevu chi ashkhati stegh.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Togh ouzadsnun chap khosin. Menk mer tserke ounink Sevres-i orenskidagan Tashnakire yev minchev ores adiga izoru e. Menk bedk e ar-ayjem polor ashxarhin aganche letsenenk inchbes nayev mer Hay joghovurte yev Hay yeridasartoutyune zankaharelov polor ashkharhin Sevres-i Tashnakri garevorutyan yev mer iravunknerun.