Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Is that a fact or an opinion?

Gavur jan, mi havada jans, it's an opinion by azeri derived agendas.

Just read again and again the Sevres Legal Treaty and tell your friends Armenians or Odars and tell as many people as you can about our legal rights paregam.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I think a fact. Otherwise, ROA will enter war with azeris too but She did not open a war against Azeris because she had no legal root.(wasnt azeris take ROA at soviet times?) It is also reason for still not recognising karabag as an independent state..

Palavra; please leave the real history to the historians, remember? That's also the motto of your turkish government. So leave it to them.

Sevres Treaty is the ONLY legal document there is vs. Kars Treaty it is an illegal document pushed solely by attaturk and jeudio-bolshevik agendas to illegally nullify everything else BUT THEY CANNOT. Jeudio-Bolshevik's just simply gave our Artsaxian lands and Naxichevan to azerbaijan which is an illegal state. So don't change history all by yourself.

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I think a fact. Otherwise, ROA will enter war with azeris too but She did not open a war against Azeris because she had no legal root.(wasnt azeris take ROA at soviet times?) It is also reason for still not recognising karabag as an independent state..

[Gavur]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

When It comes to kars treaty, ROA accepted rights and liabilities of russian armenia. So ROA is binded by that treaty.

Is that a fact or an opinion?

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Guys, Neither ottoman patisah nor ottoman parliment signed serv treaty. So It is already a null treaty. So It is neither valid nor legal.

When It comes to kars treaty, ROA accepted rights and liabilities of russian armenia. So ROA is binded by that treaty.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

That is terrible. It's like using their power in a very corrupted and selfish way so the people won't be able to rise against them. That is anything but democratic. In fact that's the worst way of controlling a mass of people.

The current state of the people is very .... spoiled. Everyone has become used to living this way. They don't see the light at the end of the cave anymore.

Yes it will be nice if bit by bit the people can stand in unity. However Saco jan, how is it that it's the government's fault for having spoiled new generation? Just that I want to be enlightened. Thank you.

I'll tell you how !

1. You know how many WONDERFUL and BRIGHT students there are here in Armenia? Many have received RED DIPLOMAS. Do you know what that is? You only receive those if you get straight A's like your whole life. These students don't have enough money to SURVIVE nowadays (xxxx YOU SERJ). These students teach music, math, or the like to small kiddies in small schools. Is that what they deserve??? Is that where they belong? When you do things like this, you lose respect for yourself. You spoil yourself . Imagine working your ASS OFF and then getting a penny and NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT IT? You become very spoiled within and don't know what to do anymore. They are our nations GOLDEN children. They are the ones that should be leading this nation. Instead, it's the brainless, ILITERATE, xxxxxxxs that get all the good posts.

2. Our new generation has lost hope. Most of them don't want to learn and I don't blame them. They say, "WHY should we learn?" and I would say the same. The gov. doesn't support anyone. They bring them down, with their own bloody hands, never allowing them to rise up. They keep them in the gutters so that THEY won't lose their posts. Our people are not all stupid, it's just that the leaders don't allow them to stand up. If Red Diploma holders can't get a decent job then who the xxxx are we, Anoush, who the F*U*C*K are we?

3. The gov. doesn't allow our people to BREATHE the fresh air here in Armenia. They make us only think about our daily food and how we'll find something...ANYTHING...for our children to eat. The gov. makes all of us very tense and unbalanced emotionally, mentally, and physically. Ay sa ya ko Hayastanu, Anoush jan. Petka kokkits kutres molakoterin vor nor karoghanas arach gunas. Easier said then done. Our WORST enemies are right here in Yerevan and their screwing us in every position you can think of .

I can write books Anoush. After all that I've seen. After all the poor, rich, and famous people I've met. After all the hopelesss students I've met. I can talk, Anoush, more then anyone ever could. I can stand up and bring everyone together ... I have the right to do that ... and I WILL!

Just the other day, your country died, Anoush, do you know that ? Ko yerkiru mahatsav, tsavut tanem. One of Armenia's greatest musicians is very, very close to our family. His name is Manuk Harutsunyan. He has been protecting our history with all he's got for more then 25-30 YEARS. The xxxxxy gov. has NEVER supported him (which means their doing their xxxxing part) or in very, VERY small doses and recently, he couldn't take it anymore ! He has protected our musical history for decades. You know how many instruments he has saved? Instruments that belonged to people like Ashugh Jivan and Komitas can be found in his GIGANTIC collection and you know how he brought them together? With his own sweat. He has been buying them from different Turkish, Kurdish, Persian, and Iranian merchants who have no idea what they carry in their hands. He has made tons of loans somehow, spending over 300,000 dollars minimum when he didn't have enough money to buy pieces of bread. Right now, he has his own little workshop, fixing and selling all kinds of instruments ... somehow surviving AND keeping our history together. In the past, he has had three orchestra's and has promoted our country and our music in countless countries. He used to live in France very nicely but decided to come back to his motherland and help her get back on her feet. And now look at how our gov. supports him. IS THIS WHAT HE DESERVES? He barely survives and has two boys (19 and 15) to take care of along with his wife, of course ... not to mention our beloved COUNTRY. The other day, he couldn't take it anymore and sold one or two of his instruments from his collection because there wasn't enough money for him to buy some medicine for his relative who was very sick . Plus, I forgot to mention that he supports many other families out there somehow. Anyways, now he couldn't SURVIVE anymore. I went with him (I'm always with him, I'm a musician myself and he's like a second father and a great friend to me) to seel an antique Dhol from his collection and I showed as much support as I could . You should've seen the look on his face. It was as if he was selling his own son. We went through that phase as a team you can say and somehow, by God's mercy, we found some small hope to move on and not give up. He was so upset that he was ready to sell his entire collection stating that "this country doesn't deserve all these instruments and all that I'm going through". He was broken down in a way I've never seen in my entire life. He could sell his entire collection RIGHT NOW for more then 10 Million dollors to Turkey, Iran, Persia, or any other country but he hasn't. He loves his country and would rather die then sell it away. All this happened 3 days ago but he hasn't given up. He just went through a very depressing phase and ANYONE would. ANYONE in his shoes. He lost one Dhol but he's planning on buying it back later on.

THAT IS WHAT TRUE LOVE FOR YOUR COUNTRY IS. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DESERVE TO TRULY BE SUPPORTED.

This is what I go through everyday Anoush. This is the pain I see everyday and believe it or not, I suffer more then anyone else. Manuk Harutsunyan is just one of the hundreds of other people I know and would gladly take a bullet for. The instrument he sold was more then 100 years old and belonged to our forefathers. We lost one more piece of our history . Don't you or anyone else DARE blame Manuk. He couldn't move on anymore and no officials were helping him so what was he supposed to do? It was a very critical moment and he couldn't do anything else Armenia's state is very difficult right now. We owe HIM most if not all the credit for saving our musical past which could have been lost forever (and was about to be).

I am creating a very big page just for our cultural guardians in C&A and Mr. Manuk will be at the very top of that page. I wil be presenting EVERYTHING related to the Armenian culture, music, cuisine, etc. through C&A and Manuk Harutsunyan and many, many others have joined me and my team and are standing together. This is the LEAST I can do for them and my country. The very LEAST. C&A is no joke my friends. It's massive and I believe it will help our nation rise from the ashes. I won't rest until it does. I have seen enough pain. It's one thing drinking a soda in the Diaspora and feeling down and it's another thing LIVING HERE and feeling all this. Many people have a lot of knowledge when it comes to the internet, creating sites, designing, etc. and I see them using their abilities in the wrong ways on many occasions. If they want to do something truly worth while then let them come forward. This project is for them. Now is the time to make a difference. It's time to walk the talk...

Although I agree with you that Levon is an outright traitor; he will certainly give away our Artsakhian lands after our men of arms and Fedayis gave their sweet lives for it. But what is Serje doing? He is collaborating secretly with our number one enemy the turks, signing that darn "Roadmap" agreement, giving away our legal Sevres Treaty and replacing it with an illegal Kars Treaty to appease the bloody turks and backstabbing his country and his countrymen.

We're going too far, Anoush jan. Seriously. Serj has swore that he won't do that and he'll burn in hell if he does AFTER he gets torn to pieces by us. Let's not get too tensed. I know I was but after talking to some serious people, I put together the puzzle and saw a different picture. Let's be worried but not tensed. Please Anoush.

Plus by opening the Boders, there is the danger as a few of our members in here already reminded us; the turks will come and buy our lands and eventually they will sell us out. There is a lose lose situation in here that is very frightening.

I doubt this will be allowed. There is more to this picture then we thought when we said all that Anoush. These borders will mostly just help big companies and I'm sure laws will be created to not allow anyone to buy our lands.

It looks like Serje is talking like he pleases to ease the people not to revolt; but I say he is selling Armenia out by doing away with our Genocide recognition cause, by not putting any preconditions to our enemy, by doing away with our Sevres Treaty rights, by doing away with our rights of Western Armenian lands and finally by having those cunning enemy turks; businessmen and their people to come to Armenia and slowly sip in and get bits and pieces of our existing land. All of these things are very bad to our sacred cause, to our beloved country and to our beloved people of the Republic.

This step is being taken quietly only to make it easier for us to deal with the AG issue and everything else. I'm not saying it's right but I don't consider it as pure evil either. Let's relax a bit and see what will happen. We haven't even seen the roadmap or anything like that yet.

Saco jan,

I want you to do one important thing in Armenia. To promote our rights, please spread around to your friends, media and whomever about our rights to the Sevres Treaty. It's rights and it's legality for the right of our lands.

Haha, Anoush jan, du achkis ches patkeratsnum incha katarvum stegh. Do you think the Armenians don't know? What will happen if I spread all that news? What do you expect to gain from that? Let's be practical. C&A is practical. Running around, shouting out "FREEDOM" is not practical and I already told you why. Please look at the bigger picture.

Saco jan, I want to ask you one more thing. Remember above you said that young people in Armenia do not like to read the whole clauses of the Sevres Treaty as it is very long. You said that you were going to shorten it for them. When you do, would you please put it out in here as well so that the Diasporan young people will also be able to read it more often than not? When it's sussinct and shortened everyone will be more aware and read it more readily in the Diaspora as well as in Armenia.

Anoush jan, this may sound selfish but we've been working our asses off for 4-5 months and whatever we do is for CA and will stay in CA. Don't worry, everyone from all over the world will enter our site so there's no need to place the treaty here. If you still really, really want it to be here then you can paste a link to our short version of the treaty. You can do that but forgive me, I'd really like our work to be appreciated in CA. If we spread all our work around then CA won't be as original and important.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Saco jan, I want to ask you one more thing. Remember above you said that young people in Armenia do not like to read the whole clauses of the Sevres Treaty as it is very long. You said that you were going to shorten it for them. When you do, would you please put it out in here as well so that the Diasporan young people will also be able to read it more often than not? When it's sussinct and shortened everyone will be more aware and read it more readily in the Diaspora as well as in Armenia.

Thank you in advance.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Saco jan,

I want you to do one important thing in Armenia. To promote our rights, please spread around to your friends, media and whomever about our rights to the Sevres Treaty. It's rights and it's legality for the right of our lands.

This also goes to everyone in the Diaspora. Please people spread about our right of way to our legal document of the Sevres Treaty.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

You know how the gov. keeps everything under it's hands? By making everyone think about finding food FIRST and doing everything else later. They've turned us into animals. When you don't have enough food, NATURALLY, you won't say too much. You'll be very cautious and silent, if not seriously afraid. So that's why, no one says anything because they don't have time to think about anything else. That's what's going on today and it is the best way to keep everything under COMPLETE control...

That is terrible. It's like using their power in a very corrupted and selfish way so the people won't be able to rise against them. That is anything but democratic. In fact that's the worst way of controlling a mass of people.

Only if the people unite can this change but Armenia's new generation is very spoiled. I blame the gov. mostly, if not completely.

Yes it will be nice if bit by bit the people can stand in unity. However Saco jan, how is it that it's the government's fault for having spoiled new generation? Just that I want to be enlightened. Thank you.

Guys, let's not go that far. Serj is an ass but he isn't Levon. Yesterday I was talking to some serious people and I asked them if their happy that Serj got elected and they said they were because Levon would destroy this country. I can even outline HOW if you like. Serj is a xxxxx but he isn't going to sell our country. Inku chariki pokr tesakna...

Although I agree with you that Levon is an outright traitor; he will certainly give away our Artsakhian lands after our men of arms and Fedayis gave their sweet lives for it. But what is Serje doing? He is collaborating secretly with our number one enemy the turks, signing that darn "Roadmap" agreement, giving away our legal Sevres Treaty and replacing it with an illegal Kars Treaty to appease the bloody turks and backstabbing his country and his countrymen. On top of that the turks had that bloody "Roadmap" agreement signed by Serje on April 23rd one day before April 24th so that Serje wouldn't breath the Genocide word; and what did Serje do? He did exactly that, what the turks wanted. Serje now threw out of the window the Genocide recognition, and he is selling out our 1.5 Million Martyrs' rights, their precious memory, the rights of their property, and the rights of our anscestral lands - all of Western Armenia.

Plus by opening the Boders, there is the danger as a few of our members in here already reminded us; the turks will come and buy our lands and eventually they will sell us out. There is a lose lose situation in here that is very frightening.

These borders opening won't SELL our country or anything like that. Serj has made that clear and if he breaks his promise, everyone will revolt, I'm sure. Plus, I don't think he's a traitor like Levon. He isn't that much of a traitor. There's a lot of tension flying around and Serj won't get away with his xxxx this time, that's for sure. So I urge him to tread softly. Let's see what happens...

It looks like Serje is talking like he pleases to ease the people not to revolt; but I say he is selling Armenia out by doing away with our Genocide recognition cause, by not putting any preconditions to our enemy, by doing away with our Sevres Treaty rights, by doing away with our rights of Western Armenian lands and finally by having those cunning enemy turks; businessmen and their people to come to Armenia and slowly sip in and get bits and pieces of our existing land. All of these things are very bad to our sacred cause, to our beloved country and to our beloved people of the Republic.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thats why I was confused when Saco's friend claimed that Serj Sargsyan is Dashnaktsutyun, they have never ever compromised Armenia's security nor its integrity, as far as I can see with Serj he only cares about money and what brings wealth (possibly to him personally), a Dashnak like Atranig, Njdeh and Yeprem Davityan would never have sold out to Turkey and they have never

Whoever said that wasn't my friend. He had some knowledge of politics and we just happened to have a chat with each other. I guess he was wrong or maybe I misunderstood him but it's very unlikely. I remember him mentioning that Serj was a Dashnak like three times.

I asked about the Hnchaks because I was curious whether they are still running, but I think the best for Armenia would be a Dashnak or Hnchak governemnt, if I were to analyse the situation

Yeah, I guess so. The problem with our gov. though (regardless of the party, don't think the Dashnaks and/or Hnchak's are demigods) is that every party places his/her relatives in most of the political posts. So when someone does something wrong, you won't be able to approach anyone because one is connected to the other in a major way. NO ONE will allow his/her relative(s) to get hurt so no matter what happens ... YOU will always come out wrong or no one will listen to you. For example, at the moment, who should we protest against? Or rather, to whom should we present our case, bro? Everyone's a xxxxx. No one will listen to us. To make someone listen, you have to first gather all the people together but that won't happen in the near future because of our Armenian mentality. You know what happens? You can go to anyone's house here in Armenia and hear them blame the gov. in ways you haven't heard in your life and see many tears but when they stand in front of an official ... they don't blame them. On the contrary, they say everything is fine and grin. Do you understand? Call it fear, call it whatever you like. The fact is, no one wants to stand up and those that do WON'T because no one will back them up. They know that very well. That is why the Armenians in the Diaspora should AT LEAST unite to set an example or something for most of the Armenian's here instead of dissing each other and their country.

Coming back to the gov. If you want to get rid of one xxxxx, you'll have to get rid of all the others as well. The Dragoon has many heads and when you cut one, another replaces it. That's what I want you to understand bro. Our country is going through a rough time and only the people, by uniting can, change that. At the moment though, that won't happen. Here's the most IMPORTANT reason why.

You know how the gov. keeps everything under it's hands? By making everyone think about finding food FIRST and doing everything else later. They've turned us into animals. When you don't have enough food, NATURALLY, you won't say too much. You'll be very cautious and silent, if not seriously afraid. So that's why, no one says anything because they don't have time to think about anything else. That's what's going on today and it is the best way to keep everything under COMPLETE control...

Only if the people unite can this change but Armenia's new generation is very spoiled. I blame the gov. mostly, if not completely.

I know there were discrepancies regarding the voting of Serj Sargsyan, some say it was rigged and there was voter intimidation, whats your opinion on this Anush jan, I mean I wouldn't doubt it if he would willingly destroy his nation for money from Turkey

Guys, let's not go that far. Serj is an ass but he isn't Levon. Yesterday I was talking to some serious people and I asked them if their happy that Serj got elected and they said they were because Levon would destroy this country. I can even outline HOW if you like. Serj is a xxxxx but he isn't going to sell our country. Inku chariki pokr tesakna...

I also asked them whether they fear these borders opening and they said that there is almost nothing to really fear. Armenia has been doing business with Turkey for a long time even with the borders closed and no one has complained. They said that these borders opening will only help Turkish companies, travellers, and/or merchants. We won't lose much. I'm not saying we shouldn't be afraid but after that talk, I've eased up a bit because those people presented the case to me almost entirely, just the way it is. These borders opening won't SELL our country or anything like that. Serj has made that clear and if he breaks his promise, everyone will revolt, I'm sure. Plus, I don't think he's a traitor like Levon. He isn't that much of a traitor. There's a lot of tension flying around and Serj won't get away with his xxxx this time, that's for sure. So I urge him to tread softly. Let's see what happens...