Origin of Armenian Surnames

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ara87 replied

06-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by jgk3 View Post

There were ducks before the Turks arrived, and they were most likely called "Bat" in Farsi dialects of the time.

It's normal for two terms for an item to have existed at the same time, with some dialects preferring one over the other. All that happened in Farsi was that the dialects that used the Turkish borrowed work Ordak ended up being more prestigious or commonly spoken than the historic Farsi word for duck "Bat". It doesn't matter if "Ordak" had a Turkish origin, it became more popular.

Oh and for the record guys... Turkish syntax and morphology is more similar to Armenian than you'd like to admit. There are some differences, but you'd be surprised by what order the words show up in a sentence in Turkish. I want to explore this phenomenon more in depth, looking out for evidence that the two languages influenced eachother's grammatical patterns.

So now the question is, did the Persians take "bat" from Armenian? (pat/patig) or did we take it from them?
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jgk3 replied

06-08-2009, 01:58 PM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post

I don�t what you guys are talking about. Me and dad (God bless his soul) used to go duck hunting in Iran all the time and the Farsi (Persian is not a language) name for it is Ordak��unless you are saying there were no ducks around until Turks showed up. Morghabe has been used as well which means water bird but that could mean any water bird like a goose.

xمرغابى Morghabe

xاردک Ordak

There were ducks before the Turks arrived, and they were most likely called "Bat" in Farsi dialects of the time.

It's normal for two terms for an item to have existed at the same time, with some dialects preferring one over the other. All that happened in Farsi was that the dialects that used the Turkish borrowed work Ordak ended up being more prestigious or commonly spoken than the historic Farsi word for duck "Bat". It doesn't matter if "Ordak" had a Turkish origin, it became more popular.

Oh and for the record guys... Turkish syntax and morphology is more similar to Armenian than you'd like to admit. There are some differences, but you'd be surprised by what order the words show up in a sentence in Turkish. I want to explore this phenomenon more in depth, looking out for evidence that the two languages influenced eachother's grammatical patterns.
Leave a comment:
Moogey replied

06-08-2009, 10:31 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by Yedtarts View Post

My mother comes from Shahbaz or Shahbazian family; they say it was a noble�s family name, originly they were from Ani, they scaped to Cilicia and now it�s a village in north-westen Syria, called �Yacoubieh� later on they were called �Kassis� translated to Armenian it�s �Yeretsian�

My father was from Adana in Cilicia.

King Abbas Bagratuni (928-951): The Haghbat monastery complex dates from his reign. The Shahbazians may be descended from the Bagratuni dynasty.

Shahbaz was also a medieval village in Karabagh, if I remember.

Then you have Shah Abbas of Persia. Very often, people took the name of a ruler, to please him. Persia was a neighbour, and often a conqueror.
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Eddo211 replied

06-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

I don�t what you guys are talking about. Me and dad (God bless his soul) used to go duck hunting in Iran all the time and the Farsi (Persian is not a language) name for it is Ordak��unless you are saying there were no ducks around until Turks showed up. Morghabe has been used as well which means water bird but that could mean any water bird like a goose.

xمرغابى Morghabe

xاردک Ordak
Leave a comment:
KanadaHye replied

06-08-2009, 09:45 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by Palavra View Post

Totally unrelated. Turkish vs arabic-persian(Infact, There is not any relation except some borrowed words.) is much less than english-french langauge.

Anyway, Turks did not loan much word from arab. It is persian which take words from arabic and Turks got these arabic words from persian...

Hey Palavra, did your great-great grandparents write in Farsi?
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Palavra replied

06-08-2009, 09:11 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Anyone that knows Arabic or Persian can probably pick up Turkish rather quickly... not sure how easy it is to go the other way.

Totally unrelated. Turkish vs arabic-persian(Infact, There is not any relation except some borrowed words.) is much less than english-french langauge.

Anyway, Turks did not loan much word from arab. It is persian which take words from arabic and Turks got these arabic words from persian...

Maybe you should listen an arabic and Turkish song.
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ara87 replied

06-08-2009, 09:00 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

i agree with seruven, i don't speak Turkish or Arabic, but I've grown up listening to Arab songs, and other media, and i can always tell when someone is speaking Arabic, and when i hear Turkish it sounds very different to me.

I don't thinks stating where a word originated from matters that much anyways, otherwise half of any languages words, (or more), com from some other language down the line. If an armo's last name was Shakarian, you wouldn't "well shakar's not really an armo word, but a corrupted sanskrit one." The origin of the original word doesn't matter, the origin of the varient does. If someones last name was Azucarian(Shakarian) you'd know he or she came from a spanish speaking country, thus if it's a odrekian vs ordakian you'd know that one they had somethin to do with ducks, and two the location from which they came

Last edited by ara87; 06-08-2009, 02:14 PM.
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KanadaHye replied

06-08-2009, 08:58 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by seruven View Post

I'm not into prolong this debate. But know that I don't agree with your statement about what Turkish sounds like. Sure Turkish took many words from these languages, which is OK for me, but IMO, it doesn't resemble or sound like Arabic at all. Note that though I'm not an Arabic speaker, I have been exposed to it for a long time.
I wonder whether your knowledge of Turkish is enough to make such certain assertions.

Anyone that knows Arabic or Persian can probably pick up Turkish rather quickly... not sure how easy it is to go the other way.
Leave a comment:
seruven replied

06-08-2009, 08:45 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Originally posted by Lucin View Post

I may sound "biased" to you but the reality is that Turkish sounds like a cacophony of Persian and Arabic... those who know either of the languages can undestand what I mean.

I'm not into prolong this debate. But know that I don't agree with your statement about what Turkish sounds like. Sure Turkish took many words from these languages, which is OK for me, but IMO, it doesn't resemble or sound like Arabic at all. Note that though I'm not an Arabic speaker, I have been exposed to it for a long time.
I wonder whether your knowledge of Turkish is enough to make such certain assertions.
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Sako replied

06-08-2009, 08:04 AM
Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Could someone tell me where surnames like xxxoyan, Gomeshyan, and the most interesting ... Terkunyan ... originated from ? I really wanna know, lol.
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