Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[Catharsis]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

You guys again dont give Armenia any credit, she has survived the demographic challanges, besides that the only way to improve the demographics situation is to improve her economy!

Can you bring a specific example of what you mean by having previously survived the demographic situation?

Federate, i already discussed the russia-azeri issue with you yet you bring it up as if we didnt talk about it already. There is more then just oil at stake here plus the most efficiant rout to exporting caspien oil is through Armenia and Russia would prefer this route over the oil going directly through russia because the former scenerio gives it control over turckey! Like seriously it is not fair when you guys choose to ommit the very important things which are glaringly obvious, how many times do i need to write the same explainations? Ignoring the obvious will get us nowhere.

I have not read what you wrote previously, but one question is glaring in all of this. How would Azerbaijan agree to have this route via Armenia if they do not get what they want in terms of Artsakh? I noted this before, yet it is you, who seems to overlook the very fact that Armenia is still at war with this nation and only "economic cooperation" by the Azeris can happen when Armenia sacrifices Artsakh. Unless, you favor this option?

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Anoush jan, I pointed something out earlier. We have all these legal documents that we could use in our fight against turkey. We have had almost 20 years to do so, why haven't we? The Diaspora is so concerned about Genocide recognition, especially in the u.s., so I ask why didn't some of the money spent on getting the idiot in the whitehouse to say the word 'Genocide', not go toward bringing an international lawsuit against turkey?

Why aren't Armenians outraged about official Yerevan not suing turkey for the illegal blockade, not to mention the Sevres Treaty? Why is everyone bit*hing now when the status quo is likely to change and could actually put Armenia in a better position?

People like Ara Papyan and Hellektor were saying for years that Armenia should take turkey to court, but no one listened to them, now people are taking them seriously when it may be too late.

Here I understand where you're coming from and for more than 2 years now as Hellektor advises us, I have also been distressed and dismayed as to why Armenia after more than 3,000 Khachkars were demolished by azeri soldiers did not do anything. Unfortunately you are right about Diasporans not pursuing anything about the legal Sevres Treaty and suing turkey for illegaly closing their borders. There you have a point and no one wanted to read and listen to Hellektor either. I'm sure many read those pages and were enlightened but they didn't listen nor did anything even when they were educated.

Armenia's past and present government distresses me as well as I have mentioned above that they don't show much patriotism and gumption against their enemies. They are selfish and into themselves and their own skin and it distresses me.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Armenians have almost always been outnumbered and constantly at war for thousends of years, those who study demographics would tell you that Armenians should not exist at all today but there they are. I have urged you to look at previous writings many times but you dont and then use it as a excuse. Despite all rhetoric alieve is not interested in kharabagh nearly as much as he is interested in selling his oil. The latest developments put pressure on the azeris to compromise on kharabagh so that the issue will be settled and oil can flow through armenia to turckey and the west. Aliev's rhetoric is aimed at his domestic audience kinda like a colorful male bird doing his xxxxy dance to attract the female. There is pressure by the usa, russia and now turckey on azeris to make a deal on kharabagh. I have been saying that should the protocals be ratified and the borders opened then the kharabagh issue will quickly also be solved. This is all part of a big plan for the region drawn up by the big powers and is intended to benefit everyone involved especialy Armenia.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

You guys again dont give Armenia any credit, she has survived the demographic challanges, besides that the only way to improve the demographics situation is to improve her economy! Federate, i already discussed the russia-azeri issue with you yet you bring it up as if we didnt talk about it already. There is more then just oil at stake here plus the most efficiant rout to exporting caspien oil is through Armenia and Russia would prefer this route over the oil going directly through russia because the former scenerio gives it control over turckey! Like seriously it is not fair when you guys choose to ommit the very important things which are glaringly obvious, how many times do i need to write the same explainations? Ignoring the obvious will get us nowhere.

Why do you think that Armenia will be able to survive the demographic challenges when the majority of the people in there are quite poor and the turkish goods will pretty much take over their goods and their crops? Besides Armenia of today is very tiny, it isn't like the way it was in the old days in Western Armenia when the land was vast and they made their own crops, the people were intelligent businessmen and had a land to maneuver their business with and around. Today the people in Armenia don't have all that. Also because of the vast land in the past our people were able to stand together and the turks were all by themselves, thus they were able to stick together almost like their own country. There is no such vast lands to have in today's little Armenia.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

You guys again dont give Armenia any credit, she has survived the demographic challanges, besides that the only way to improve the demographics situation is to improve her economy!

For a guy that is against religion, you sure do have a lot of faith. Yes, Russia has way too much investment and interest in Armenia but why would it care about the people? There has to be some sort of brotherhood in order for the protectionism to exist. The economy starts with industry, and Armenia hasn't even reached near Soviet era production in terms of manufacturing goods. Please tell me who will gain from the open borders and how the average joe will benefit.

Why do you think that Armenia will be able to survive the demographic challenges when the majority of the people in there are quite poor and the turkish goods will pretty much take ove their goods and their crops? Besides Armenia of today is very tiny, it isn't like the way it was in the old days in Western Armenia when the land was vast and they made their own crops, the people were intelligent businessmen and had a land to maneuver their business. Today the people in Armenia don't have all that.

Exactly, all the educated, businessmen, etc. were a large part of Western Armenia that either didn't survive or are now in the diaspora.

[Eddo211]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Descendent of Armenian Genocide victims can’t sue foreign insurance companies any more:

For Justice and
Democracy



Armenian Americans descended from victims of the 1915-18 massacre by Ottoman Turks can’t sue foreign insurance companies for unpaid claims because the U.S. government doesn’t legally recognize that an Armenian genocide occurred, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday. A Glendale priest and thousands of other Armenians whose relatives were among the 1.2 million killed had won a partial victory two years ago.

U.S. District Judge Christina A. Snyder said then that a 2000 law passed by the California Legislature gave the descendants standing to sue three German insurance companies. But a divided three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned that ruling, saying the California law attempted to undercut the president’s diplomatic authority and had to be preempted by the federal policy against acknowledging the genocide.

"I think the decision is outrageous. If taken to its logical extension, what this decision means is that all 40 states that have recognized the Armenian genocide have to set aside that recognition," said Brian S. Kabateck, a Los Angeles lawyer representing the plaintiffs whose own maternal grandparents died in the genocide.

"This is a sad day for Armenian Americans," he said, adding that the decision would make recovery of victims’ bank accounts, insurance proceeds and other property impossible. He vowed to appeal for rehearing by a larger panel of judges.”

Public Radio of Armenia

http://eafjd.eu/spip.php?breve2126

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Why do you think that Armenia will be able to survive the demographic challenges when the majority of the people in there are quite poor and the turkish goods will pretty much take over their goods and their crops? Besides Armenia of today is very tiny, it isn't like the way it was in the old days in Western Armenia when the land was vast and they made their own crops, the people were intelligent businessmen and had a land to maneuver their business with and around. Today the people in Armenia don't have all that.

Anoush the people in Armenia did not get stupid, there are still inteligent people who are shrewd businessmen. Armenia has more then enoughf land to suport the amount of people in it now and to allow it to compete in open markets. Open borders will bring the prosperity our country needs to keep its people there and perhaps to attract those presently outside its borders.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Anoush the people in Armenia did not get stupid, there are still inteligent people who are shrewd businessmen.

Are you referring to the hyra's again?

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Anoush the people in Armenia did not get stupid, there are still inteligent people who are shrewd businessmen. Armenia has more then enoughf land to suport the amount of people in it now and to allow it to compete in open markets. Open borders will bring the prosperity our country needs to keep its people there and perhaps to attract those presently outside its borders.

Like I said before, I'm still very distressed about the Genocide issue and reparation rights that we have lost as of now; but about yours and Armanen's optimistic outlooks about the outcome of all this towards Armenia, I sure hope that you are right and I am wrong for the sake of Armenia and our people in there.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Are you referring to the hyra's again?

No KanadaHye I am sure he is referring about the Armenian people's business know how and our keen intelligence, in most respects anyhow. He can correct me otherwise.