Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[QUOTE=KanadaHye;283789]For a guy that is against religion, you sure do have a lot of faith. Yes, Russia has way too much investment and interest in Armenia but why would it care about the people? There has to be some sort of brotherhood in order for the protectionism to exist. The economy starts with industry, and Armenia hasn't even reached near Soviet era production in terms of manufacturing goods. Please tell me who will gain from the open borders and how the average joe will benefit.



Dude i have already gone over this. I have lots of faith in my people because they are proven survivors even under the harshest of sircumstances. Russia cares for Armenia because of self interest not much more then that. All that infastructure which will be built due to opening of borders (railroads, pipelines, highways..) is going to create a ton of new jobs in Hayastan, plus it will all need to be maintained so many jobs will be permanent. Armenia is a part owner of all infrastructure and will be part owner of any new infastructure thus it again benefits. All the new traffic flowing through it will generate much more business.. i have gone through all of this in more detail already but this should give you a idea. The fact that open borders will generate much needed economic development is not questioned by any rational unbiased person. Only those with other agendas question this fact. Russia ownes much of the infastructure in Armenia so naturaly it wants armenia to thrive so it will make money to plus it needs armenia there as a anti panturckish wedge so its interests coinside with our own.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Descendent of Armenian Genocide victims can’t sue foreign insurance companies any more:

For Justice and
Democracy



Armenian Americans descended from victims of the 1915-18 massacre by Ottoman Turks can’t sue foreign insurance companies for unpaid claims because the U.S. government doesn’t legally recognize that an Armenian genocide occurred, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday. A Glendale priest and thousands of other Armenians whose relatives were among the 1.2 million killed had won a partial victory two years ago.

U.S. District Judge Christina A. Snyder said then that a 2000 law passed by the California Legislature gave the descendants standing to sue three German insurance companies. But a divided three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned that ruling, saying the California law attempted to undercut the president’s diplomatic authority and had to be preempted by the federal policy against acknowledging the genocide.

"I think the decision is outrageous. If taken to its logical extension, what this decision means is that all 40 states that have recognized the Armenian genocide have to set aside that recognition," said Brian S. Kabateck, a Los Angeles lawyer representing the plaintiffs whose own maternal grandparents died in the genocide.

"This is a sad day for Armenian Americans," he said, adding that the decision would make recovery of victims’ bank accounts, insurance proceeds and other property impossible. He vowed to appeal for rehearing by a larger panel of judges.”

Public Radio of Armenia

http://eafjd.eu/spip.php?breve2126

This is very outrageous and may he go to hell for being on the side of a denialist immoral country and after getting most Armenians votes he went 360 degrees the other way. May he go to hell the bastard. It's all politik for him, nothing else.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Like I said before, I'm still very distressed about the Genocide issue and reparation rights that we have lost as of now; but about yours and Armanen's optimistic outlooks about the outcome of all this towards Armenia, I sure hope that you are right and I am wrong for the sake of Armenia and our people in there.

I understand your feelings and i also wish the preconditions didnt have to happen but looking at this rationaly we can see that we were never close to getting reparation ( i dought anyone would argue this point) thus we have not realy lost anything since we never had it to begin with. We all want whats best for our country and people and i share your closing thoughts.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[QUOTE=Haykakan;283795]

Dude i have already gone over this. I have lots of faith in my people because they are proven survivors even under the harshest of sircumstances. Russia cares for Armenia because of self interest not much more then that. All that infastructure which will be built due to opening of borders (railroads, pipelines, highways..) is going to create a ton of new jobs in Hayastan, plus it will all need to be maintained so many jobs will be permanent. Armenia is a part owner of all infrastructure and will be part owner of any new infastructure thus it again benefits. All the new traffic flowing through it will generate much more business.. i have gone through all of this in more detail already but this should give you a idea. The fact that open borders will generate much needed economic development is not questioned by any rational unbiased person. Only those with other agendas question this fact. Russia ownes much of the infastructure in Armenia so naturaly it wants armenia to thrive so it will make money to plus it needs armenia there as a anti panturckish wedge so its interests coinside with our own.

I don't know any company that hires locals, nowadays companies hire contractors to do the job. The mining industry (with respect to gold) was all done by foreigners in Armenia. This is the reality of the global economy, people are dime a dozen and the big players few. Unless somebody in the government stands up for the average joe, they won't see a dime of the development of infrastructure.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Descendent of Armenian Genocide victims can’t sue foreign insurance companies any more:

For Justice and
Democracy



Armenian Americans descended from victims of the 1915-18 massacre by Ottoman Turks can’t sue foreign insurance companies for unpaid claims because the U.S. government doesn’t legally recognize that an Armenian genocide occurred, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday. A Glendale priest and thousands of other Armenians whose relatives were among the 1.2 million killed had won a partial victory two years ago.

U.S. District Judge Christina A. Snyder said then that a 2000 law passed by the California Legislature gave the descendants standing to sue three German insurance companies. But a divided three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned that ruling, saying the California law attempted to undercut the president’s diplomatic authority and had to be preempted by the federal policy against acknowledging the genocide.

"I think the decision is outrageous. If taken to its logical extension, what this decision means is that all 40 states that have recognized the Armenian genocide have to set aside that recognition," said Brian S. Kabateck, a Los Angeles lawyer representing the plaintiffs whose own maternal grandparents died in the genocide.

"This is a sad day for Armenian Americans," he said, adding that the decision would make recovery of victims’ bank accounts, insurance proceeds and other property impossible. He vowed to appeal for rehearing by a larger panel of judges.”

Public Radio of Armenia

http://eafjd.eu/spip.php?breve2126

You can point your finger directly at the hrya lobby for this decision. Only a hrya can be a victim of atrocities against humanity because only hryas are humans and the rest of us are all just gentiles.(talk about narsicicm.)

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

You can point your finger directly at the hrya lobby for this decision. Only a hrya can be a victim of atrocities against humanity because only hryas are humans and the rest of us are all just gentiles.(talk about narsicicm.)

Even the term "Otto"man had to come out of Austria/Germany. Damn bankers have been on payroll since the start of our demise.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[QUOTE=KanadaHye;283798]

I don't know any company that hires locals, nowadays companies hire contractors to do the job. The mining industry (with respect to gold) was all done by foreigners in Armenia. This is the reality of the global economy, people are dime a dozen and the big players few. Unless somebody in the government stands up for the average joe, they won't see a dime of the development of infrastructure.

This is not true, Armenia had a huge construction boom and almost all of the workers were local armenians thus they benefited. The new projects even if managed by international firms are going to need tons of domestic labor to build plus all this stuff needs maintnants so many of these jobs will be permanent and of course only the locals can fill such positions. In addition to all this the locals will get the most use and benefits from the newly built infastructures.

[Eddo211]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Only the President of Armenia can push for the treaty of Sevres, Diaspora is powerless.

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No official, whether Armenian or not, can afford to ignore public fears concerning unfavorable outcomes, and if -- God forbid -- the outcomes do in fact hurt the nation, no such official would ever be saved from the ensuing public outrage.

What interests and pretexts are at the root of the Armenian-Turkish diplomatic process - in terms of big profits and geopolitical influence?
Turks are the ones who need to stop the blockade of Armenia, hence they are impatient. As for us, we waited 70 years and another 20 years, and we can wait some more. If it is not in line with our present national interests and our national historic path, it must be avoided.

We would also like to assure you Mr. President that the countries and organizations -- waiting for their share of hard cash for instigating or applauding talks between Armenia and Turkey -- will surely start turn on each other as soon as there are conflicts of interest.

Future conflicts and bloody resolutions must be prevented instead of generating new ones. As American citizens we will express our positions most ardently to the U.S. administration. As interested compatriots we recommend the following:

1) After securing Russia's support, making Articles 92 and 89 of the Treaty of Sevres the subject of immediate negotiations between Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. In the event of a refusal, we must take the case to the appropriate international institutions. By so, the matters of Javakhk,
Nakhichevan, and Armenian Aghvank on the right bank would be resolved as well as Artsakh.

2) Basing any negotiations concerning the Turkish-Armenian border on the Peace Treaty of Sevres and the November 22, 1920 resolution of United States President and international arbitrator Woodrow Wilson - immediately abandoning said negotiations in the event of attempts to push the un-ratified Moscow and Kars treaties.
Ending the blockade of Armenia has its price: to have a strategically safe border and a passage to the sea for Armenia, rooted in implementation of Articles 92 and 89 of the Treaty of Sevres, as well as the ovember 22, 1920 resolution of United States President and international arbitrator Woodrow Wilson.

In the Turkish-Armenian negotiations the Armenian Administration is obligated to pursue a favorable outcome for Armenia and Armenians, supported by historic facts and legal documents. And if push comes to shove, to prevent an unfavorable outcome for the nation, the Armenian administration or an official representative must abandon negotiations and resume only when
there is a Turkish diplomat ready to meet the conditions that will not slight Armenia and Armenians all over the world.

DCWA President Michael Sosikian
Secretary of State Hakob Mkrtchian

http://www.azad-hye.net/media/p1/dcwa-letter-to-sargsyan.pdf

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Only the President of Armenia can push for the treaty of Sevres, Diaspora is powerless.

1) After securing Russia's support, making Articles 92 and 89 of the Treaty of Sevres the subject of immediate negotiations between Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. In the event of a refusal, we must take the case to the appropriate international institutions. By so, the matters of Javakhk,
Nakhichevan, and Armenian Aghvank on the right bank would be resolved as well as Artsakh.

2) Basing any negotiations concerning the Turkish-Armenian border on the Peace Treaty of Sevres and the November 22, 1920 resolution of United States President and international arbitrator Woodrow Wilson - immediately abandoning said negotiations in the event of attempts to push the un-ratified Moscow and Kars treaties.
Ending the blockade of Armenia has its price: to have a strategically safe border and a passage to the sea for Armenia, rooted in implementation of Articles 92 and 89 of the Treaty of Sevres, as well as the ovember 22, 1920 resolution of United States President and international arbitrator Woodrow Wilson.

http://www.azad-hye.net/media/p1/dcw...o-sargsyan.pdf

I'm sure that letter was posted on Sargsyan's liquor cabinet and not promptly put through the shredder.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Eddo there you go again copy/pasting useless crap instead of thinking and contributing. Does anyone other then the author of this article think that any of this is at all possible? Hell i dought the author himself believes any of this is anywhere near realistic. Like who is going to back the serves treaty and why? As i have said a million times before, treaties and documents are only as valid as the powers that back them up. This whole article is completely meaningless because there is no one and nothing with power backing up this treaty. It states that this can be done only after securing russian support but why would russia support this? and how would we secure its support? This is like saying i am the richest man on earth because i know that having gold will make me rich but i have no way to attain nor make this gold. Complete bs like this is not worth posting nor reading.