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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • #28461
    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    A new status in the region is needed, the current status quo does not favor Armenia but Azerbaijan and Turkey. The lifting of the blockades, and the incorporation of Artsakh legally into Armenia should be top priority. After that, we should make territorial claims to our lands to the West. I'm tired of Azerbaijanis and this war. We need to move forward. It is in the interest of the Turk to keep us wrapped up over hectares of land for the next 100 years as they colonize our former territories with more and more Muslims.
    -----




    Hmmm. So the current status quo favors Turks and Azeris? First time I hear this. Ingenious... So liberating our land in Artsakh is in the interest of Turks to get us wrapped up over hectares for next 100 years? I welcome that for next 100 years. But you are willing to give up that land which was won by the blood of our people and is being held by blood and wrap us with promise of other hectares in the west?




    Regarding the options. Well, the phased settlement our government has been opposing for the past 20 years is the big one. That is absolute BS and unacceptable. It will lead to the death of every Armenian in the region. We must never allow this to happen.
    ----



    I thought the phased settlement was rejected because it takes away security zones before guaranteeing artsak's status. So without phased settlement that has been favoring Azerbaijan all Armenians will be killed? I thought they tried it




    Another would be the incorporation of Russian peace-keepers in the region along with phased settlement aka the Kazan Plan. Its absurd and never should happen. The Russians wouldn't be able to defend Artsakh if Armenia is cut off from it after the pull out of the buffer zone. The Azeris would overrun the region Ossetian-style.
    ------


    Didn't Azeris try to run over Artsakh just over a month ago? Did it work?





    You're joking right? What do you call these blockades? The frontline? We are being besieged by the Turks, and war is not going to solve this problem. It will only mean our eventual demise.
    -----


    Agh here is the siege description which we were into and never knowing.





    We also have a siege-mentality and I think your posts make it obvious. This is a direct result of our genocide and should be overcome. That is the only way we can break the Turkish siege on our nation.

    -------

    So wiping out my genocide memory and ending my siege mentality will break Turkish "Siege".
    Sorry, sounds too Turkish an idea.




    What do you mean? Turk resumption of hostilites even after a peace treaty? That would prompt Russian invasion of Azerbaijan and perhaps even international intervention. The Azerbaijanis are quite literally batxxxx, but they are not THAT suicidal.
    -----

    Right above you do not trust Russian peacekeepers but believe Russia will "invade" if Turks break treaty.
    Can you tell me on whose favor will Russia invade? Our? Really?




    What I am arguing is that ceding some territory, on our terms, back to them is a much better deal than ceding the entire buffer zone back
    ------

    Ohhh ahhh you're talking about some territory, not the entire zone.
    I thought this was offered and rejected by Azeris over and over for past 22 years?




    Am I a troll? �
    Last edited by Hakob; 05-27-2016, 09:23 PM.

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    • #28462
      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Lori, the current blockades are harmful to some degree, sure, but they are not decisive for Armenia's future economic growth. That depends on the Armenian leadership, the right use of resources, human capital, and even the diaspora. But, alas, for now we are stuck with the degenerate f-ucks up and down the ladder.

      As for land concessions, I think people have been saying this in one form or another and that is that the turks on either side cannot be trusted and even a peace treaty signed on ban ki moons forehead is not a guarantee. You called it siege-mentality earlier. But it's difficult to argue that its not warranted.

      Take turkey for example. They invaded cyprus, refused the US access during iraq 2, are actively trading oil with isis in Syria. All against the wishes of international community or the US. So what makes you think that giving back 5/7 regions guarantees any kind of security.

      And no, Azeri refugees cannot go back to Artsakh. That ship sailed with Operation Ring and sunk to the bottom of the ocean with aliev giving awards to the soldiers who beheaded our boys last month.

      So, as far as I'm concerned, the status quo is the best we can do at this time and we should keep it until a better opportunity comes or our hand is forced to concede. They tried to force our hand a month ago and got a boot to the chin. So far, so good.

      Comment

      • #28463
        Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        I thought the phased settlement was rejected because it takes away security zones before guaranteeing artsak's status. So without phased settlement that has been favoring Azerbaijan all Armenians will be killed? I thought they tried it
        The phase settlement includes a pullout of Armenian forces from all buffer zone territories. We reject it, but it is part of the official peace plan.

        Didn't Azeris try to run over Artsakh just over a month ago? Did it work?
        Its as if you completely disregarded everything I said in the quote you included. Hilarious. Re-read it.

        So wiping out my genocide memory and ending my siege mentality will break Turkish "Siege".
        Sorry, sounds too Turkish an idea.
        Breaking the chains set upon us by the Turks, is a Turkish idea? I never said anything about forgetting the genocide, how dare you even suggest it.

        Right above you do not trust Russian peacekeepers but believe Russia will "invade" if Turks break treaty.
        Can you tell me on whose favor will Russia invade? Our? Really?
        I said the Russian peacekeepers wouldnt be able to defend Artsakh after the phased settlement and pullout of the buffer zone. They would be isolated from the 102nd base. Look up the Kazan plan.

        Ohhh ahhh you're talking about some territory, not the entire zone.
        I thought this was offered and rejected by Azeris over and over for past 22 years?
        ARE YOU KIDDING ME? -__- Did you not see the map I posted, the territories I listed, etc? You don't even pay attention.

        You are taking part in mental gymnastics as a futile attempt to build a coherent argument. I suggest you stop, you are only embarrassing yourself.

        Im absolutely done discussing this with you - I shouldn't have from the beginning, looks like I was just feeding a troll.
        Last edited by Lori; 05-27-2016, 09:33 PM.

        Comment

        • #28464
          Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by Hakob View Post
          The way I see is Samve Babayan showed up to prepare Armenian public to land concessions./////

          This is a Russian attempt at securing a peace treaty between Armenia and Azerbaijan guaranteed with land concessions from Armenian side but with critical flaws of security guarantees which neither Russia or west cannot give and which are just a loughing joke for the Turks. Resettlement of Azeri refugees is just that, giving up land because once population changes so Armenian Artsakh will loose controll.
          This is a covert or open Russian plan worth nothing.
          It is also abvious it suits Russia heating up tensions between Armenia and turkey now with land demands for Western Armenian territories.
          An otherwise a simple attempt at never ending plan of bringing Azerbaijan closer to Russia by granting territories of Artsakh security zone.
          We have been talking about this lately a lot that Russia may help Azerbaijan gain territories in exchange of closer relations. Simple.
          And it is no accident that the word "siege" has been used before by Azeris, Turks and even Russians to describe a situation that will force Armenia to cede territories.
          I guess this territory issue is being activated again.
          They could not force it with April war, now back to using people or operatives in pushing for it.
          /////
          Last edited by Vrej1915; 05-27-2016, 09:36 PM.

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          • #28465
            Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan


            Last edited by Vrej1915; 05-27-2016, 09:43 PM.

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            • #28466
              Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post
              It does seem as if Samvel has an agenda, coming back to Armenia just to make the authorities look bad. I also don't know what he means by the the statement "they stopped modernizing the army". What is the 200 million dollar arms deal with Russian supposed to be?

              Comment

              • #28467
                Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                «Շանգրիլա» խաղատան հզոր լուսարձակները ԼՂՀ-ում օգտագործվում են անօդաչու թռչող սարքերը «բռնեցնելու» համար. Ժողովուրդ
                Lragir.am
                Ներքին կյանք - 28 Մայիսի 2016,

                «Ժողովուրդ» թերթի տեղեկություններով՝ քառօրյա պատերազմից հետո Արցախի խորհրդարանի պատգամավոր, գեներալ-մայոր Վիտալի Բալասանյանը դիմել է ՀՀ Աժ ԲՀԿ խմբակցության անդամ, գործարար Գագիկ Ծառուկյանին՝ նրանից խնդրելով իրեն պատկանող «Շանգրիլա» խաղատան դիմաց տեղադրված հզոր լուսարձակները նվիրել ԼՂՀ-ին։ Բանն այն է, որ այդ լուսարձակները շատ հզոր են, և մթության մեջ դրանց օգնությամբ հեշտությամբ կարելի է անօդաչու թռչող սարքերին «բռնեցնել»։ Գագիկ Ծառուկյանը չի մերժել Բալասանյանի խնդրանքը և անմիջապես հանձնարարել է լուսարձակները ապամոնտաժել և ուղարկել գեներալին։ Մեր տեղեկություններով՝դրանք ապրիլից արդեն տեղադրված են ղարաբաղա-ադրբեջանական շփման գծի հարևանությամբ։ Ավելին՝ «Ժողովուրդ»–ին հայտնի դարձավ որ քառօրյա պատերազմից հետո մեր զինվորների կողմից խոցված անօդաչու թռչող սարքերից երկուսը ոչնչացվել են հենց լուսարձակների օգնությամբ», գրում է թերթը։
                - See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/cou....yhsXQiRr.dpuf

                Comment

                • #28468
                  Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Comment

                  • #28469
                    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    ՀԱՊԿ ՕԱՀՈւ «Կոբալտ 2016» համատեղ վարժանքները






                    Comment

                    • #28470
                      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Guys has anyone heard of the PT72 U upgrade from the Russians they should be finished by now, here I'll give you a quote from Hyefighter

                      "I dont know what is going on, some news agency tell that we will not get polish tanks, but officily we already have contract with them, also officialy contract with russians, so could be we modernize with polaks and russians, just whait and we will see. Its hard to get new tanks,modernization of t72 is probably same as T90 but with lower price"

                      So did we get em or was this a sad rumor.
                      Last edited by DieHard69; 05-27-2016, 11:20 PM.

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