Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Good news indeed. I'm also thinking of doing it. Sooner or later, either we will have to go back or fade away with time.

I got it in August.

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Yes, and look what we came up with.
I must say I'm really disappointed with this "MRLS"
Bunch of RPG-7s welded on a rail. Are you kidding me?

Delta is former Soviet infrastructure. They're not exactly building new things as much as copying other products. The didori is essentially the Turkish cobra. The RS-122 is essentially the Grad on a different chassis. It is enviable, but it isn't impossible to have something similar or even better.

Now the Swedes and Finns... there is a model you want to take inspiration from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_(company)

http://saab.com/

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Yes, and look what we came up with.
I must say I'm really disappointed with this "MRLS"
Bunch of RPG-7s welded on a rail. Are you kidding me?

"Alright axperner, we need to build our Armenian MRLS, any questions of what do we do with our budget of 100$"

"We have a xxxx ton of rpg 7's and a bit of glue and metal"

"And?"

"How about we stitch together 20 rpg 7's with glue and metal and BAM our very own MRLS"

"Davit you are are now employee of the month"

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Bunch of RPG-7s welded on a rail. Are you kidding me?

Might not be the most modern approach but for our needs, I kind of like the basic concept. Not very accurate, can be compensated with the quantity. Good for very short range, we build the warheads ourselves.
I think if we combine this unit with our new border monitoring sensors/visions that was posted few days ago it will be a good start. A low budget start.
Think of last April's incursion, if we had many of these fixed all around Talish, sinked with the new cam/sensors azeris would all have been disintegrated before stepping in our territories.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I like it!

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Delta is former Soviet infrastructure. They're not exactly building new things as much as copying other products. The didori is essentially the Turkish cobra. The RS-122 is essentially the Grad on a different chassis. It is enviable, but it isn't impossible to have something similar or even better.

Now the Swedes and Finns... there is a model you want to take inspiration from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_(company)

http://saab.com/

Everything in those links is not coming from single country. All Scandinavian countries looks like work together then in turn work with European Union countries like France and Germany. Even US Boing has chipped in. It's 100% integrated for parts and assemblies.
Are you guys realistic? Who can we integrate with?
Our best bet is Russia, Belarus and Kazakistan. Mainly Russia.
I am a tooling engineer by profession and have worked in manufacturing for over 38 years. I'll tell you guys to produce anything, even a washing machine, you need tons of suppliers, subcontractors and state of the art facilities nowadays.
Not to mention highly skilled labor force and modern design and manufacturing domestic base.
All of the above have been destroyed in post Soviet republics over 25 years ago. Only Russia has kept core resources based on military military industry.
Belarus and Kazakhstan heavily depend on Russia to keep their shadow industries going.
What you see in Georgia is assembly put together facility that puts together from part kits from turkey, NATO etc. Doing this you would only save money, like buying car kit and assembling. But strategically you do not gain anything except bragging rights and cover on your eyes from reality.
Azerbaijan is in the same situation. 100% of what manufactures militarily is either Turkish or Israeli copy based on supplied parts. If any money is saved on armements, all 3 economies (Georgians less, us and Azeris 100%) loose by waistfull and corrupt governments.
The only domestic military industry optimal for countries our size is ammunition manufacturing of every kind, repair and upgrade facilities for equipment in service and research facilities for establishing and improving requirements and ideas for our particular military progress.
The only possible sustaining or survivable military industries for small countries like us are niche products like lazer rangefinders observation equipment, training, computerized command and control, artillery fire control systems and programs etc.
I think Armenia has a good potential in all above.
Why waist time on MRLS if you can buy them from Russia by internal prices. What Georgians make we can buy for fraction of the cost. The most important aspect for any old or new GRAD type is the rockets and control system. What do you gain by putting it on Volvo chassis instead of UAZ and making nice and sharp fenders or side plates? Nothing.
We have been computerizing Grad controls and are staring to manufacture rockets too.
Or Azeris making their own Turkish istiglal or Israeli drones. Do they make em more advanced? I doubt very much. Money saved? Very questionable.
We have to use the same format as EU if we want to go any further. Establish relations with Russia's core military manufacturers and help them manufacture and sell us hardware and stuff designed to our needs buy us and being advanced tech.
That is what Israel still does with US.
Then we can get them to supply us with components and material so we can cut corners in price and innovation in international markets and compete to make money.
Otherwise both, Georgian and azery industries do not impress me into wanting to go their way.
Our most important issue right now is economic reform. If our government cannot or is not sincere enough in reforming Armenia, then everything is pointless.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

N-2 works with any RPG round but primarily thermobaric, it's relatively cheap, it's short range and a light MRLS. I don't see the problem with turning expendable things like RPG rounds into light MRLS.

Georgian Didgori in (in)action in Saudi Arabia

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What you see in Georgia is assembly put together facility that puts together from part kits from turkey, NATO etc. Doing this you would only save money, like buying car kit and assembling. But strategically you do not gain anything except bragging rights and cover on your eyes from reality.

All small armaments under $10.000 are considered commodity. They are mass produced in their respective countries. You cannot generate any revenues unless you have MAJOR export markets. Almost impossible to jump in, unless you come up with something that no one has. All the big items with decent technology at very LOW prices is cornered by the Russians. US and some of the smarter Northern Europeans variations are maybe more advanced from the Russians versions with VERY steep pricing. In short, it does not pay off to build or duplicate what Russia offers for the price of the raw materials. The only way you can build your own defense industry if you come up with small innovative electronic defense systems that your country needs and you can export to compensate for what it takes to R&D, line assembly, materials, sales and the list goes on.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

N-2 works with any RPG round but primarily thermobaric, it's relatively cheap, it's short range and a light MRLS. I don't see the problem with turning expendable things like RPG rounds into light MRLS.

Georgian Didgori in (in)action in Saudi Arabia

Holly sht! Fking idiots!
Irrelevant what you give some people they will always be idiots.