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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Originally posted by haydavid View Post
    Very bad idea to arm the civilians, it will make them legitimate military targets. Civilians should stay civilians. Those couple of AK's will do nothing. It's already very easy for those who want it ( and that's very important) to be armed in hours if war starts.

    Karabakh is militarized enough already. What we need are big weapons like artillery, tanks, AA, missiles,... Not some AK's
    So, thru the history without exception, Turks Target cyvilians first, direct vast majority of their bombings to villages at towns, as soon as our cyvilians fall into their hands start torturing and cutting ears and noses then massacring without exception makes our cyvilians safer unarmed? Are they less targets than military?
    I wish they could be concidered military targets, that way jeneva convention could help. In reality Turks consider us as animals to be wiped out and no international opinion has stopped them from doing so.
    Look at past April war. If Talish cyvilians were armed and trained picture would be diffrent. Turks could not enter.
    I see our struggle with Turks not as land dispute, but for our existence.
    We have not waken up even after genocide or centuries old history.
    The only other country that has been in similar conditions is Israel. Look how it Arms and trains itís population.
    Arabs keep declaring and trying to sweep them into sea for past 70 years, they are at the farthest of that intention today than any time in israelís history.
    So Jews are very realistic, unlike us.
    Many of our military people like Vova Vardanov, have been talking about need to arm cyvilians, but autoritarian regimes we had did not like the idea for their own safety, not for true factors.
    Last edited by Hakob; 07-11-2018, 02:14 PM.

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    • Բախումներ Ադրբեջանում. 2 զոհ, 40 ձերբակալված

      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

      Comment


      • I think the punch line is that we need a Territorial Army which basically is a local militia and acts as an extension to the army in case of war.

        Models of such structures exist in many countries.

        They meet regularly in local drill halls for both training as well as socially, very important to create the type of bond territorial units should have.

        Detachments join the regulars for specialised training.

        They are also lead by regular officers which gives them both standard as well as attitude required.

        Overall this makes supporting main army units in the event of war less cumbersome.

        .
        Last edited by londontsi; 07-12-2018, 12:06 AM.
        Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
        Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
        Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

        Comment


        • Originally posted by londontsi View Post
          I think the punch line is that we need a Territorial Army which basically is a local militia and acts as an extension to the army in case of war.

          Models of such structures exist in many countries.

          They meet regularly in local drill halls for both training as well as socially, very important to create the type of bond territorial units should have.

          Detachments join the regulars for specialised training.

          They are also lead by regular officers which gives them both standard as well as attitude required.

          Overall this makes supporting main army units in the event of war less cumbersome.

          .
          Look at military/civilian structure of any country of our size and threats or challenges.
          We have the Russian sistem, without manpower and territory.
          We should pull our heads out of sand and accept that soon or later we have to face the Turkish army, unless we accept that Russian military is going to be present on our soil forever.
          Even if we want that, there is no guarantee that some day Russians will not pack up and leave.
          If war in 2 fronts our army will melt away in few days.
          Do we want to leave population in Turkish askerís hand unprotected like in 1915 and hope for Turkish mercy?
          I am telling you, past 25 years world has changed for worse in ways unimaginable before.
          in our neigbourhood things have repeated early parts of 20thcentury ways that could never be imagined.
          Also Turks and Azeris are turning back to pre 1920s mentality and ambitions very fast now.
          when talk like this, our people start talking as if Iín daydreaming. ďNuke the Turks, bomb them, take our lands back. Unrealistic
          We think that Sardarapat is given and guaranteed for us from heaven.
          But even in that situation we will need every able person to be able to shoot at Turks to stop them.
          leage of nations did not last. United Nations has shown many times to be toothless.
          If we will not be ready for worse, we cannot guarantee us a good future.
          Last edited by Hakob; 07-12-2018, 12:56 AM.

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          • If Turkey decides to attack us and we don't have external support we are done, no matter how many armed people we have. Don't turn Armenia into North Korea

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            • Originally posted by haydavid View Post
              If Turkey decides to attack us and we don't have external support we are done, no matter how many armed people we have. Don't turn Armenia into North Korea

              Irrelevant comparison my friend.
              The whole issue is not to leave it to turkey to decide. If they know the price they will pay is way too high they may stop. Look at what happened in Afrin. Turks do not have determined and ready army. They have not won a single dog fight battle since 19th century but succeeded only by exploring weaknesses and opportunities. Converted Christian armies, janisaris are long gone. Donít give them any opportunity and the will just stay away.
              Before comparing to North Korea, Arabs or any other we should think about our own circumstances and possibilities.
              Maybe this whole population arming issue we can do by our own unique way. First in the world that works.
              Look at Velvet Revolution just a month ago. We proved we can do things our own way. Why not think out of box about military?
              Its us and Turks, what we do is what matters.
              We can be the victims of 1915 or Like Kurds, get up and run away.
              Orsomething else that we put together.
              This arming issue has nothing to do with chaotic armament in population, or forced servitude like Korea, or creating Bandas etc...
              Its about defence and education, responsibility and certain type of civilian society that has diffrent type of possibilities and opportunities in securing its own homes besides conventional army. People that participate in their own defence.
              Last edited by Hakob; 07-12-2018, 05:42 AM.

              Comment


              • World politics is full of symbolism. The previous President Serzh Sarkissian vowed to be the "first passenger to fly from Yerevan to Stepanakert," yet he cowered and never fulfilled this promise, even after the Azeri's adjusted their rhetoric about shooting down civilian planes.

                Now, we have the Prime Minister's son, a citizen of the Republic of Armenia, serving in the Defense Army of the Republic of Artsakh. Anyone who can't see it, there's a strong message there, direct to both Baku and the international community.

                That message has been received in Baku:

                On Wednesday, an Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned Pashinian for approving and promoting his 18-year-old sonís decision to perform compulsory military service in Karabakh. The official, Hikmet Hajiyev, said Pashinian is thus trying to keep his approval ratings high at the expense of regional peace.

                source: https://www.azatutyun.am/a/29359489.html
                BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Vahram90

                  To be honest, the step of Pashinyan is good for propaganda but not for our diplomacy. For decades our diplomacy is trying to maintain the impression that the troops in Artsakh are only under the command of the government of Artsakh. If we show the whole world that the son of our prime minister serves in the army of Artsakh we confirm, in a certain sense, that the de facto state sovereignity of Artsakh is a myth. That's what the azeris want us to do. Do not forget that the fact that Artsakh officially has its own army strengthens our position in the negotiation process.
                  Our diplomacy hasn't really changed. We always acted as the defender of Artsakh. We never hid the fact that our conscripts go to Artsakh or that our armies are basically one.
                  Fact remains that Artsakh has it's own government and chain of command. It is an independent entity and the revolution proved it (no big changes in the Artsakh government).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vahram90

                    To be honest, the step of Pashinyan is good for propaganda but not for our diplomacy. For decades our diplomacy is trying to maintain the impression that the troops in Artsakh are only under the command of the government of Artsakh. If we show the whole world that the son of our prime minister serves in the army of Artsakh we confirm, in a certain sense, that the de facto state sovereignity of Artsakh is a myth. That's what the azeris want us to do. Do not forget that the fact that Artsakh officially has its own army strengthens our position in the negotiation process.
                    Who is this propaganda aimed at? Everyone in Armenia knows, and it's no hidden secret to the international community either, that the Republic of Armenia conscripts its citizens to serve in Artsakh.

                    Diplomatically, Armenia has always been the guarantor of Artsakh's security, and that has never been made secret either. Neither is it a secret that Artsakhsis carry Republic of Armenia passports, and use the Armenian Dram currency. The whole world sees this, and it isn't blind.

                    The message in all this is sticking it in their eye, and making it clear to the Baboons about our position regarding Artsakh, and the lengths we're willing to go to defend it; in other words, Artsakh and Armenia are one and the same. The message is extremely power; more powerful than meets the eye, and more powerful than most can comprehend and see thru.
                    BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                    <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                    --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

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                    • Armenian Army






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