Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by haydavid View Post
    Very bad idea to arm the civilians, it will make them legitimate military targets. Civilians should stay civilians. Those couple of AK's will do nothing. It's already very easy for those who want it ( and that's very important) to be armed in hours if war starts.

    Karabakh is militarized enough already. What we need are big weapons like artillery, tanks, AA, missiles,... Not some AK's
    So, thru the history without exception, Turks Target cyvilians first, direct vast majority of their bombings to villages at towns, as soon as our cyvilians fall into their hands start torturing and cutting ears and noses then massacring without exception makes our cyvilians safer unarmed? Are they less targets than military?
    I wish they could be concidered military targets, that way jeneva convention could help. In reality Turks consider us as animals to be wiped out and no international opinion has stopped them from doing so.
    Look at past April war. If Talish cyvilians were armed and trained picture would be diffrent. Turks could not enter.
    I see our struggle with Turks not as land dispute, but for our existence.
    We have not waken up even after genocide or centuries old history.
    The only other country that has been in similar conditions is Israel. Look how it Arms and trains itís population.
    Arabs keep declaring and trying to sweep them into sea for past 70 years, they are at the farthest of that intention today than any time in israelís history.
    So Jews are very realistic, unlike us.
    Many of our military people like Vova Vardanov, have been talking about need to arm cyvilians, but autoritarian regimes we had did not like the idea for their own safety, not for true factors.
    Last edited by Hakob; 07-11-2018, 01:14 PM.

    Comment



    • Բախումներ Ադրբեջանում. 2 զոհ, 40 ձերբակալված

      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hakob View Post

        So, thru the history without exception, Turks Target cyvilians first, direct vast majority of their bombings to villages at towns, as soon as our cyvilians fall into their hands start torturing and cutting ears and noses then massacring without exception makes our cyvilians safer unarmed? Are they less targets than military?
        I wish they could be concidered military targets, that way jeneva convention could help. In reality Turks consider us as animals to be wiped out and no international opinion has stopped them from doing so.
        Look at past April war. If Talish cyvilians were armed and trained picture would be diffrent. Turks could not enter.
        I see our struggle with Turks not as land dispute, but for our existence.
        We have not waken up even after genocide or centuries old history.
        The only other country that has been in similar conditions is Israel. Look how it Arms and trains itís population.
        Arabs keep declaring and trying to sweep them into sea for past 70 years, they are at the farthest of that intention today than any time in israelís history.
        So Jews are very realistic, unlike us.
        Many of our military people like Vova Vardanov, have been talking about need to arm cyvilians, but autoritarian regimes we had did not like the idea for their own safety, not for true factors.
        Simply arming all civilians doesn't help us because civilians are not able to participate in military actions. And it creates a new danger for the interior security if everybody has an AK at home. It would be more efficient if every community near the border gets a little arms storage in the city hall or the local police station that can be used for civil defense in the case of an attack or a diversion. They must get some training of course. The communities in border areas should have the possibility to organize civil defense and evacuation by themselves. Arming these communities for these purposes makes sense. But I have the impression that you suggest something else. You want to integrate every able person in the military defense itself like the Germans did in 1945 with their stupid "Volkssturm". That's pure mania, my friend. Do you know what happens to civilians who are not well-trained if they get involved in military actions? They suffer extreme high losses and disturb the real military. Btw what you suggest has more similarities with the arab way of thinking than with the israeli civil defense concept.

        Comment


        • I think the punch line is that we need a Territorial Army which basically is a local militia and acts as an extension to the army in case of war.

          Models of such structures exist in many countries.

          They meet regularly in local drill halls for both training as well as socially, very important to create the type of bond territorial units should have.

          Detachments join the regulars for specialised training.

          They are also lead by regular officers which gives them both standard as well as attitude required.

          Overall this makes supporting main army units in the event of war less cumbersome.

          .
          Last edited by londontsi; 07-11-2018, 11:06 PM.
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

          Comment


          • Originally posted by londontsi View Post
            I think the punch line is that we need a Territorial Army which basically is a local militia and acts as an extension to the army in case of war.

            Models of such structures exist in many countries.

            They meet regularly in local drill halls for both training as well as socially, very important to create the type of bond territorial units should have.

            Detachments join the regulars for specialised training.

            They are also lead by regular officers which gives them both standard as well as attitude required.

            Overall this makes supporting main army units in the event of war less cumbersome.

            .
            Look at military/civilian structure of any country of our size and threats or challenges.
            We have the Russian sistem, without manpower and territory.
            We should pull our heads out of sand and accept that soon or later we have to face the Turkish army, unless we accept that Russian military is going to be present on our soil forever.
            Even if we want that, there is no guarantee that some day Russians will not pack up and leave.
            If war in 2 fronts our army will melt away in few days.
            Do we want to leave population in Turkish askerís hand unprotected like in 1915 and hope for Turkish mercy?
            I am telling you, past 25 years world has changed for worse in ways unimaginable before.
            in our neigbourhood things have repeated early parts of 20thcentury ways that could never be imagined.
            Also Turks and Azeris are turning back to pre 1920s mentality and ambitions very fast now.
            when talk like this, our people start talking as if Iín daydreaming. ďNuke the Turks, bomb them, take our lands back. Unrealistic
            We think that Sardarapat is given and guaranteed for us from heaven.
            But even in that situation we will need every able person to be able to shoot at Turks to stop them.
            leage of nations did not last. United Nations has shown many times to be toothless.
            If we will not be ready for worse, we cannot guarantee us a good future.
            Last edited by Hakob; 07-11-2018, 11:56 PM.

            Comment


            • If Turkey decides to attack us and we don't have external support we are done, no matter how many armed people we have. Don't turn Armenia into North Korea

              Comment


              • Originally posted by haydavid View Post
                If Turkey decides to attack us and we don't have external support we are done, no matter how many armed people we have. Don't turn Armenia into North Korea

                Irrelevant comparison my friend.
                The whole issue is not to leave it to turkey to decide. If they know the price they will pay is way too high they may stop. Look at what happened in Afrin. Turks do not have determined and ready army. They have not won a single dog fight battle since 19th century but succeeded only by exploring weaknesses and opportunities. Converted Christian armies, janisaris are long gone. Donít give them any opportunity and the will just stay away.
                Before comparing to North Korea, Arabs or any other we should think about our own circumstances and possibilities.
                Maybe this whole population arming issue we can do by our own unique way. First in the world that works.
                Look at Velvet Revolution just a month ago. We proved we can do things our own way. Why not think out of box about military?
                Its us and Turks, what we do is what matters.
                We can be the victims of 1915 or Like Kurds, get up and run away.
                Orsomething else that we put together.
                This arming issue has nothing to do with chaotic armament in population, or forced servitude like Korea, or creating Bandas etc...
                Its about defence and education, responsibility and certain type of civilian society that has diffrent type of possibilities and opportunities in securing its own homes besides conventional army. People that participate in their own defence.
                Last edited by Hakob; 07-12-2018, 04:42 AM.

                Comment


                • We forget that many things we are talking about are already reality in Armenia. We have (at least officially) civil defense and basic military education as school subject, cadet schools, semi-militarized units of the AIN, militarized units of the National Security Service (Border Guard and Unit "Ayb"), Police troops and special unit of the Police and many many veterans and ex-conscripts. In Artsakh half of the male population above the age of 50 participated in war. If the apocalypse described by Hakob comes we will not fail due to lack of armed men.

                  Comment


                  • World politics is full of symbolism. The previous President Serzh Sarkissian vowed to be the "first passenger to fly from Yerevan to Stepanakert," yet he cowered and never fulfilled this promise, even after the Azeri's adjusted their rhetoric about shooting down civilian planes.

                    Now, we have the Prime Minister's son, a citizen of the Republic of Armenia, serving in the Defense Army of the Republic of Artsakh. Anyone who can't see it, there's a strong message there, direct to both Baku and the international community.

                    That message has been received in Baku:

                    On Wednesday, an Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned Pashinian for approving and promoting his 18-year-old sonís decision to perform compulsory military service in Karabakh. The official, Hikmet Hajiyev, said Pashinian is thus trying to keep his approval ratings high at the expense of regional peace.

                    source: https://www.azatutyun.am/a/29359489.html
                    BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                    <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                    --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
                      World politics is full of symbolism. The previous President Serzh Sarkissian vowed to be the "first passenger to fly from Yerevan to Stepanakert," yet he cowered and never fulfilled this promise, even after the Azeri's adjusted their rhetoric about shooting down civilian planes.

                      Now, we have the Prime Minister's son, a citizen of the Republic of Armenia, serving in the Defense Army of the Republic of Artsakh. Anyone who can't see it, there's a strong message there, direct to both Baku and the international community.

                      That message has been received in Baku:

                      On Wednesday, an Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned Pashinian for approving and promoting his 18-year-old sonís decision to perform compulsory military service in Karabakh. The official, Hikmet Hajiyev, said Pashinian is thus trying to keep his approval ratings high at the expense of regional peace.

                      source: https://www.azatutyun.am/a/29359489.html
                      To be honest, the step of Pashinyan is good for propaganda but not for our diplomacy. For decades our diplomacy is trying to maintain the impression that the troops in Artsakh are only under the command of the government of Artsakh. If we show the whole world that the son of our prime minister serves in the army of Artsakh we confirm, in a certain sense, that the de facto state sovereignity of Artsakh is a myth. That's what the azeris want us to do. Do not forget that the fact that Artsakh officially has its own army strengthens our position in the negotiation process.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X