Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"There are a good amount of people that voted for HHK. There's a lot of false propaganda also going around, spread by Western agents. Others, are just to stupid to understand that Serzh or Kocharian are infinitely better than any of the opposition that would kneel to Azerbaijan in no time. Our number one priority is a strong government that stands in defence of Karabakh and Armenia. "

Amen Mos! I'm a Western Armo and I even know this. There was a picture in one of the Armenian news sits with the oposition guy talking, he looked like a snake backstaber. Watch the money trail, see who is giving money see what was his name Haffman? Why whould a Haffman give money to an Armo if he is not getting something in return?

The problem with the West is not Democracy, the problem with the West is that they are making a mockery out of Democracy! This is not about people voting freely, this is about placing a stooge in place so the people can vote for their stooge. In the end no one wins in this game, and for all the brains in the West I’m shocked that no one knows this!

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"There are a good amount of people that voted for HHK. There's a lot of false propaganda also going around, spread by Western agents. Others, are just to stupid to understand that Serzh or Kocharian are infinitely better than any of the opposition that would kneel to Azerbaijan in no time. Our number one priority is a strong government that stands in defence of Karabakh and Armenia. "

Amen Mos! I'm a Western Armo and I even know this. There was a picture in one of the Armenian news sits with the oposition guy talking, he looked like a snake backstaber. Watch the money trail, see who is giving money see what was his name Haffman? Why whould a Haffman give money to an Armo if he is not getting something in return?

The problem with the West is not Democracy, the problem with the West is that they are making a mockery out of Democracy! This is not about people voting freely, this is about placing a stooge in place so the people can vote for their stooge. In the end no one wins in this game, and for all the brains in the West I’m shocked that no one knows this!

The West wants Armenia to be a quiet Turkish/NATO satellite state so they can use Armenia for all their precious transit routes for military/energy. That's why they are so keen on us normalising relations with Turks. Russia on the other hand, doesn't want this. It's against Western/Turkish interests in the region.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just read the story of Monte. Interesting man, it's only a pity that he supported the Islamic revolution in Iran.

Why is that a pity?

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just read the story of Monte. Interesting man, it's only a pity that he supported the Islamic revolution in Iran.

He supported any movement he saw as the oppressed fighting for their rights but it wasn't until he went to Lebanon and became involved in Armenian activities that he was led to his true calling. He became disillusioned with many the movements he had supported and it when Armenia became independent and he was needed in Artsakh, this is when he became a legend and found the one true/noble cause he was searching for.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoMNzAj4JfQ&feature=player_embedded

1993թ. հունիսի 12-ին զոհվեց Մոնթե Մելքոնյանը
Էդիկ Բաղդասարյան

13:38, 12 հունիսի, 2012
Վաղ առավոտյան Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի Մարտունու ինքնապաշտպանական ուժերը սկսեցին Ադրբեջանի Աղդամի շրջանի մի քանի գյուղերում տեղակայված ռազմական հենակետերի ոչնչացման գործողությունը:

Ամեն ինչ հաջող էր ընթանում: Կեսօրին գործողությունն ավարտված էր: Մոնթեն, Կոմիտասը, Սարիբեկը, Սարոն, Հովիկը եւ Գեւորգը «Վիլիսով» մտան Մարզիլի գյուղ: Տարածքը զննելուց հետո նրանք պետք է որոշեին նոր դիրքերի տեղերը:

Խաչմերուկում զրահամեքենա նկատելով` «Վիլիսը» կանգնեց: Մոտ 40 մետր հեռավորության վրա գտնվող զրահամեքենայի շուրջ խմբված էին զինվորներ: Կոմիտասը, որ ադրբեջանական զինվորական համազգեստով էր, դուրս եկավ մեքենայից, քայլեց նրանց ուղղությամբ: Նա գոռաց` հայե՞ր եք:

Դիմացինները ադրբեջաներենով պատասխանեցին` ոչ: Կոմիտասը հետո պատմում էր. հարցնելու պահին արդեն գիտեր, որ թշնամու զինվորներն են: Նա կրակելով ետ քաշվեց: Մեքենայում գտնվողները դուրս նետվեցին եւ կրակելով սկսեցին դիրքավորվել: Թշնամու ավտոմատավորներին միացավ զրահամեքենայի խոշոր տրամաչափի գնդացիրը:

Առաջին կրակոցի ժամանակ տղաները պառկած էին: Մոնթեն վազեց դեպի կողքի տան պատը: Լսվեց գնդացրի երկրորդ կրակոցը: Կպել էր պատին… Բեկորի մի մեծ կտոր մխրճվել էր Մոնթեի գլխի մեջ: Տղաներից չորսն արդեն վիրավոր էին: Հովիկը Մոնթեին գրկած` ռացիայով օգնություն կանչեց. 00-ն չկա, 00-ին խփել են… Հրամանատարի կողքին դիրքավորվելով` նրանք շարունակեցին դիմադրել: Օգնության հասած ուժերը ադրբեջանական ջոկատին ոչնչացրին, ադրբեջանցի զինվորներից մեկին գերի վերցրին: Հետախուզության պետը` Սարիբեկ Մարտիրոսյաննն արդեն արյունաքամ էր եւ հիվանդանոց հասցնելուն պես մահացավ:

http://hetq.am/arm/articles/2045/1993t-hunisi-12-in-zohvec-monte-melqonyany.html

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just read the story of Monte. Interesting man, it's only a pity that he supported the Islamic revolution in Iran.

Agreed with Mos, why is this a pity? The revolution rid Iran of subservience to the West and established a truly influential country. God willing, a similar (but not Islamic) revolution will free Armenia of corruption and complacency.

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

" God willing, a similar (but not Islamic) revolution will free Armenia of corruption and complacency. "

When are you planing on having this revolution? I hope after we solve our problems with the toorks?

The only reason Iran had a revolution was becuase someone wanted to cheat them out of oil! Same goes for Iraq, a democratically elected government was overthrown so the oil company could make one more nickle per barrel of oil. I thought Captalists like to pay for things and let market forces rule, guess I was a fool amongst many others.

Just picture what the Middle East would have been right now if we just paid for the damn oil and left things be, it would all be a Democracy by now.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If Armenia could afford to buy the latest and greatest then we could build a viable air force. However, you should know well that in the armed forces, the air force is the most expensive to maintain, more so than navy or army.

Armenia doesn't need the latest and the greatest at this time. Older aircraft with the Armenian touch will do just fine (what happened to Russian discounts btw). What Armenia needs is a viable small fleet that can maintain control of her airspace and fend off any Azeri air attacks. I don't expect Armenia right away to be able to go up against the Turkish airforce, this is why we have the Russian airbase with Russian migs. There should be no reason why Armenian fighter jets can't fly along side Russian pilots over Armenia.

And what would prevent Armenian solders from marching all the way to the Caspian would be politics. Because if we have the green light from Moscow to go ahead, you can bet they will offer more than just diplomatic cover.

without proper air cover we will needlessly loose many of our boys on the ground sending them to the deaths. In regards to your bet that Russia would provide air cover during such an offensive I have many problems with that but I will go over two:

1- Russian pilots are not obligated to go all the way or risk their lives/aircraft in getting shotdown to save Armenian soldiers or Armenian towns if its too dangerous......now an Armenian pilot would be a different story, it would be his duty and honor to save the lives of his compatriots regardless of the danger and loosing his own life/aircraft.

2- If the offensive was successful we will never hear the end of it and the whole world will say that it was the Russians who won the war, not Armenians....and they will be right, even though Armenians did most of the work.

Your political analysis skills need calibration.

Touche

btw Armanen, I would never claim to be a political analyst.....I am just an old school aviator.

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys about this air cover thing we are blowing this out of proportion! Listen to Eddo! First even during the Soviet times there was not a big air force in Armenia even back than it was not needed. I think we have more Russian planes now that we did back then.

First there is not much airspace to fly around in Armenia, it is a tough airspace. If you have one missile on your arse you can’t doge it

So let us go back to the first war for NKR! We downed how many baboon planes that were manned by Russian Mercenaries? All this we did without an active air defense! Just shoulder fired stuff and maybe a lucky hit with some AA guns. We did not have much yet with shotguns and a few MPADS we did all this damage! We did so much damage that the baboon air force was not a player at the end of the war. Here we are 20 years later with S300 amongst other things and you guys are still crying about an Air force. We don’t need it!

Look!

See how happy those Armo's were

Me geragek, me geragek...pa pa pat, parrr a pat pat

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys about this air cover thing we are blowing this out of proportion! Listen to Eddo! First even during the Soviet times there was not a big air force in Armenia even back than it was not needed. I think we have more Russian planes now that we did back then.

First there is not much airspace to fly around in Armenia, it is a tough airspace. If you have one missile on your arse you can’t doge it

So let us go back to the first war for NKR! We downed how many baboon planes that were manned by Russian Mercenaries? All this we did without an active air defense! Just shoulder fired stuff and maybe a lucky hit with some AA guns. We did not have much yet with shotguns and a few MPADS we did all this damage! We did so much damage that the baboon air force was not a player at the end of the war. Here we are 20 years later with S300 amongst other things and you guys are still crying about an Air force. We don’t need it!

Agreed for the most part Vahram. Armenia definitely needs to prioritize its air defense over its air force. But to be honest, we don't really have a choice. Maintaining (much less creating) an air force requires huge amounts of capital, which we do not have.

I also like the previously mentioned fact that Armenia will reach the Caspian if it has Russian approval. If/when it does, Russia will provide the air superiority needed.