Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    agree with you 100%. our current borders need some adjustment, specially tavush NKR is in a better shape though.
    100%

    think what Armenia should aim for is not to take over Baku.....but to establih a border with Russia (surround Georgia).
    It would not be a good idea for Armenia to start the war (I am against that), but in case of an attack from Azerbaijan into Armenia proper, now that is a different ball game, it would be justified.
    I have thought about this alot, but forming a border with Russia woule eventually mean 2 things, which are not easy to accomplish

    1. Taking over the oil routes to the west...I don't think anyone's gonna let Armenia do that
    2. Cutting the contact between Azerbaijan and Turkey (currently through Georgia)...which turkey's not going to allow to happen (i don't know how it may respond...it will take a very deep ananlysis)

    Maybe something like this could be possible after Azerbaijan stops from being an energy exporter, but in the current situation...It's almost impossible.

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Originally posted by arakeretzig View Post
      The russian-azeri border is very mountainous, only paved highway is near the coast, which is too far for us. Qax/Zaqtala region is closer and would surround georgia, but it's mountainous, we'd need to dig a new roki tunnel
      With our current manpower (and airpower) digging might be easier than to hold a new long border with some pissed off baboons all the down to Iran.

      Taking it is one thing.....keeping is another.
      B0zkurt Hunter

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by ArmeniaSacra View Post
        100%

        Maybe something like this could be possible after Azerbaijan stops from being an energy exporter, but in the current situation...It's almost impossible.
        the thing is, if azeris attack NKR again, we have to give them another lesson. Otherwise, every few years, they'll do the same thing with impunity (kinda like the tavush skirmishes) but on a much bigger scale and wider timeline.
        IMHO, Every action needs to have a reaction. What's the best way to punish azeris(and turks at the same time)? Take over BTC pipeline.
        If we don't dare play their game, then we might as well quit and call it a day now, cuz they will play it to the end.
        Who do you think Azeris get their green card from on attacking NKR and Armenia? (the US/Israel, backed by turks)
        They want to finish us off for good, shall we let them do it, or seize a historical moment?
        I mean when was the last time armenia has such an oppertunity to liberate its lands? 1000 years ago?

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Armenian Army






          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by arakeretzig View Post
            I wanted to ask you about this. How efficient will azeri mig-29s will be over artsakh? if we assume that they don't have any PGMs, how efficient will dummy bombing be over a little area such as artsakh by mig-29s? they've around 50 mig-29s, i doubt they'll just let them rot in reserve, they'll surely use them for whatever they can.
            also, having in mind there's a S300-PS in Goris covering artsakh now, but that's entirely other topic i guess.
            First of all they don't have 50 MiG-29s. Do not rely on dubious sources. The total number of MiG-29s in current service is 13. They are ex-Ukrainian airplanes that they received a few years ago.
            Second, they are early model units that have been refurbished (not modernized) in Ukraine before delivery. They are mainly for air defence. They ground attack options are limited to unguided bombs and rockets, no PGMs.
            Third, having S300 anywhere near Goris (or NKR) means that the Azeri aircraft cannot patrol at altitude anywhere near NKR. They will have to stay at very low altitude (which increases fuel burn and decreases patrol time) and be vulnerable to our short range defences.

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Vahram View Post
              "Again with your BS, I never said we need to have a democracy. Maybe YOU are the Western agent. Having democracy is but a trivial problem facing Armenia."

              LOL, I'm the agent...ROTFLMAO

              "Let me know if you have any real arguments instead of the crazy monologue going on inside your head."

              If you did not understand what was written before what makes you think you will understand anything after?

              Have a nice ride on the plane with Donald on the Revolution...ROTFLMAO

              So it seems there is someone more crazy then Vahram on this board, you earned it!

              brace yourselves folks there is going to be a revolution in Armenia...ROTF

              Originally posted by Vahram View Post
              "I am urging you to think before you speak (or type in this case). "

              Do you want me to type before or after the "Revolution" ?...ROTFLMAO!

              I hear that not only is Donald Duck going with you but you are also taking a monkey with you...

              Enjoy your stay I'm sure you are welcome now not only in Armenia but people on this board! At least I know the azeribaboons love you now! Good job!
              Vahram, what are you saying? if you"re not a clever azeri trying to derail this forum then you are an Armenian who isn't saying much but ROTFLMAO and how his brother is wrong because you say so. you offer no argument!

              Originally posted by davidoga View Post
              Honestly, if you full-heartedly support the current regime, you are probably a criminal.
              It is possible that, with lack of awareness, people think that the economic situation in Armenia acceptable. I'm definitely not advocating for a revolution but if in a dream world, all the oligarchy, corruption, monopoly and tax evasion could be completely erased it would be much easier for lower or middle class Armenian to have a financial dream and actually achieve it. the thought that it's a joke to dream in Armenia is not completely true but i feel that the the most guaranteed way of financial success for a family is to have their able body members to leave the country. if people had a reason to dream with Armenia in mind they wouldn't think of separating with their families. if the hundreds of thousands of lower and middle class family were succeeding to the degree that was possible, these families would spend their money in the country thus fueling economic growth thus increasing investment thus the amount of taxes thus giving conscripts better equipment to fight the next war.

              most of what an air force can provide is an air cover and air support. The S-300 and other SAMS would force them low or face large losses. they would have to run SEAD(suppression of enemy air deffense) missions to take away that air cover, which they do not have the resource necessary to achieve even partial success. Su-25's artillery, MLRS's and totchkas can provide suport but i think Armenia is long overdue for a large scale rearmament in the artillery support area(more smerches long range artillery and hopefully Iskander's ). if anyone has the money for they're dream air force then cough it up. even if you did have the money, in my opinion that money spent elsewhere would make more of a difference in saving Armenian lives. in a surprise attack any airbase in Armenia is in range of artillery or rockets and in mere seconds to minutes you would have airstrips with craters and damage infrastructure not to mention the possibility of destroyed or damaged aircraft. The hundreds of millions of dollars that would have been lost could be spent on equipment that would survive the initial bombardment and be used in combat.

              Originally posted by arakeretzig View Post
              I wanted to ask you about this. How efficient will azeri mig-29s will be over artsakh? if we assume that they don't have any PGMs, how efficient will dummy bombing be over a little area such as artsakh by mig-29s? they've around 50 mig-29s, i doubt they'll just let them rot in reserve, they'll surely use them for whatever they can.
              also, having in mind there's a S300-PS in Goris covering artsakh now, but that's entirely other topic i guess.
              Even if they had pgm the s-300's that would likely be directed at them would force them to fly low thus exposing them to the an array of AAA MANPAD's and low altitude SAM's. they would have to run suppression of enemy air defense operations with mi-35's to preoccupy some of the low level air defenss to try and get deep into Artsakh. (which they don't need to do cause of the EXTRA missile curtsey of the Heryas.)

              Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
              I am no expert but the Mig-29s would be useless over Artsakh to most degree, unless they get retrofited (Armenianized) to fly bomber and/or strategic ground strick mission.......use your speed fly in and out before the enemy can say "what was that".

              I don't think Azerbaijan will risk its Migs in war over NKR.......over Armenia? you bet, they will use it. Again, this is just my opinion and I don't claim to be an expert in airial warfare.
              To come in undetected against the pmu-2 is in my armature opinion not possible...

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
                Wings over Armenia....flight of two.

                That is the exact type of plane and the exact type of flight method that is needed to destroy strategic (bridges, airfields, command centers.etc) and economic (oil fields, refineries etc.) targets while at the same avoid the Azeri S-300 PMU-2 missiles which have a range of up to 200km (depending on altitude). When flying at low level, the S-300 air defense battery's kill zones will be less than 30 km because of the curvature of the Earth.

                Our Su-25 can inflict immense material and psychological damage to the enemy. On numerous photos and videos, we see our pilots practicing low level flights in solo or duo. That is not for show, it is the training they need to be effective against the enemy.

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by ZORAVAR View Post
                  That is the exact type of plane and the exact type of flight method that is needed to destroy strategic (bridges, airfields, command centers.etc) and economic (oil fields, refineries etc.) targets while at the same avoid the Azeri S-300 PMU-2 missiles which have a range of up to 200km (depending on altitude). When flying at low level, the S-300 air defense battery's kill zones will be less than 30 km because of the curvature of the Earth.

                  Our Su-25 can inflict immense material and psychological damage to the enemy. On numerous photos and videos, we see our pilots practicing low level flights in solo or duo. That is not for show, it is the training they need to be effective against the enemy.
                  If they place their s-300 radars or their soon to be Green Pine radars on the highlands of their portion of the Greater Caucasus and their missile closer to the front wouldn't the radars have line of sight and therefore guide the missile and alert any nearby low altitude SAM's of the attacking aircraft. Even with a short exposure time, because of the low level flying, it would only take dozens of second for the missile to reach the area of the Armenian su-25's

                  I can see Armenian su-25's accomplishing tactical support but strategic bombing of any targets deep into Azerbaijan seems like a suicide mission to me.
                  Last edited by gokorik; 06-13-2012, 02:06 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by gokorik View Post
                    To come in undetected against the pmu-2 is in my armature opinion not possible...
                    Further to my previous post:
                    -Radars waves travel horizontaly.
                    -The earths curvature limits the range of radar. That's why some countries have airborne radars like AWACS.
                    -The S-300 PMU-2 radars can detect airplanes at several hundred kilometers at high altitude.
                    -Against low flying aircraft, their range is limited.
                    -An Su-25 fying in a "nap of the earth" mission profile can come almost up to 20 km of an S-300.
                    -Flying low is difficult and needs lots of practice, it also limits the range of an aircraft becuse of the higher fuel burn rate.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by ZORAVAR View Post
                      Further to my previous post:
                      -Radars waves travel horizontaly.
                      -The earths curvature limits the range of radar. That's why some countries have airborne radars like AWACS.
                      -The S-300 PMU-2 radars can detect airplanes at several hundred kilometers at high altitude.
                      -Against low flying aircraft, their range is limited.
                      -An Su-25 fying in a "nap of the earth" mission profile can come almost up to 20 km of an S-300.
                      -Flying low is difficult and needs lots of practice, it also limits the range of an aircraft becuse of the higher fuel burn rate.

                      interesting. so the only way to defeat a S300 is either fool it by stealth technology or take it out by overwhelming number of cruise/ballistic missiles.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X